Zoe Williams on Ghey case

[theDudesmummy]

I find this article really offensive, especially the breathtakingly simplistic (wilfully deaf/blind) tone of "A child* *having to use a toilet cubicle previously occupied by a trans woman is apparently the right-thinking parent’s most pressing fear". Co-opting this tragedy in this dogwhistle way is not OK. Nuanced debate and analysis would be welcome.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/02/brianna-ghey-name-killers-transphobia-children?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

I'm not giving her the benefit of a click. The other article in the guardian about the perpetrators is reasonably sensible.

The two children were not convicted of a transphobic attack. The boy was found to be in part transphobic. There was no mention of transphobia in the girls sentencing. The vast majority of violence against trans people is committed by men, and men they know.. So yet again, women wanting their own safe spaces are being blamed for male violence.

@Angrycat2768 precisely. Shoehorning of what actually happened in a real situation into the TRA agenda, and simply ignoring inconveniences like the truth, is very familiar of course, but all the more offensive in the context of such an awful tragedy. The comment about a toilet cubicle is so trite yet so completely wilfully ignorant at the same time, it does not belong in a discussion of this case. Raise your eyes and your standards ffs.

There's no point reading anything Zoe Williams writes. She's biased, incapable of critical thinking, full of bile.

She’s utterly utterly awful. She was so desperate for transphobia to be the reason and when it wasn’t, she decided it was anyway and wrote this shit stirring piece of nonsense

Anyone using this tragedy to score points is abhorrent.
Whether it's a GC person or a TRA or anyone in-between.

Brianna should be remember by her family however they see fit, they shouldn't have to remember them as political ball being kicked around the sewer of twitter.

Shes so unbelievably tiresome and desperate. My understanding is that these two were hellbent on finding someone to torture and murder, and Brianna was who they settled on. It could easily have been some other unfortunate young person. It's a hell of a leap to make a connection between this dreadful case and claiming that society is rife with 'transphobia', but that seems to be ZW's pet hand wringing subject at the moment

Zoe Williams is an idiot and I've no interest in reading anything she has to say about anything. Her response to
Jo Phoenix on Women's Hour was so breathtakingly stupid, not to mention inaccurate that I've pledged to do all I can to avoid her.

A terrible advert for private school.

I knew her take on Brianna Ghey would be awful and stupid.

@fiskita my thoughts exactly. Posh privately schooled woman who reeks of desperation to push her own agenda and incapable of writing intelligently.

I think it's really irresponsible of the Guardian to let someone as thick and biased as ZW - who clearly sees research and facts as beneath her - loose on topics affecting actual named people.

The reporting nd mythology around this case in general has been infuriating. Brianna was "fearless", but also unable to catch a bus alone at the age of 16, or attend normal lessons because of anxiety. Brianna was so popular, but was being bullied and had no friends. Brianna was confident and larger than life and perfectly able to make decisions about medical changes to the body, but also shy, quite mentally unwell and very self-destructive. I feel quite sorry for the dad who seems to have seen his child as a boy still but wasn't allowed to mourn - publicly, at least - in those terms.

I think there is an interesting conversation to be had here. I imagine part of what makes Esther Ghey so empathic to the killers' parents (apart from the fact she she seems a very nice, kind woman) is knowing that she did her best at parenting and that her child still had difficulties which she couldn't fix.
I'd be looking at the effects of lockdown and the role of the internet and social media which seems to have played a large part in this tragedy. But of course Zoe Williams has to pretend that a culture of transportation was to blame, despite the other kids on that list not being trans, and despite the girl - the driving force - seeming to be a trans ally.

Transportation 🙄transphobia

Bloody hell, those of this political leaning never hesitate to use a child as a weapon for the Cause do they? There's a devastated family involved here who do not need bloody silly people using their tragedy and their baby for political leverage.

Zero class. Zero ethics.

How Zoe Williams has maintained a career for so long is beyond me. When she started her writing was very thin but a little bit funny and, last I read, thin and just trite. Why is she paid and given space to write?

Correct me if I'm wrong but reading about the sentencing yesterday it seemed as though the CPS pushed for transphobia to be mentioned and taken into account (is the CPS Stonewalled?).

The very simple fact that there were four boys who were not transgender on the murderers' kill list, meaning that transphobia can be ruled out.

I also feel very sorry for the boy that they attempted to kill two weeks earlier, who has been forgotten about because he doesn't have a transgender status and therefore not of interest to the media. Obviously he shouldn't be named, but he's probably going through a lot and he's just be disregarded.

Zoe Williams is a hack. I don’t read any articles she writes.

Sorry I wouldn’t normally comment without reading the article but just can’t give Zoe Williams the clicks on this one. How dare she wade in with assertions, as if this murder case wasn’t awful enough. What special insight does she think she has? The police were very clear that these two very disturbed kids had a list of five people they were going for. BBC quotes the police on exactly this point:

‘We never built this case around a transgender element," said Det Ch Supt Evans.
"This was about the murder of a young, vulnerable girl. We obviously know there was that kill list, which had five people on it. Brianna was one of them.
"Brianna was the only person on that list who was transgender. This was about murderous intent for somebody."‘

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-67727331

@ABeaver8MyThumb Yes I have thought that about all of the reporting! All three children described as “normal teenagers” when absolutely nothing I was reading sounded “normal” to me at all - as well as all the things you mention, there was also SJ’s managed school move, her attendance was less than 80%, her lessons were taking place in the isolation unit too, the fact they lured Brianna to the park by asking if she wanted to go and take cocaine with them (is that really a normal thing for 16 year olds to suggest to each other these days?).

It made me wonder whether I am just completely out of touch with what is normal in secondary school (mine is in primary), but I can’t believe any of that is actually normal for the majority of teenagers.

Might not be unusual enough to predict it will end up in murder, but surely the parents of SJ and ER must have known their children were seriously troubled? SJ’s mum was a secondary school teacher ffs, she must know that managed moves and low school attendance isn’t “normal”.

I’m not saying any of the parents are culpable or didn’t try their hardest, just commenting on the reporting of all of this as totally normal teenagerdom.

ABeaver8MyThumb · Today 09:29

The reporting nd mythology around this case in general has been infuriating. Brianna was "fearless", but also unable to catch a bus alone at the age of 16, or attend normal lessons because of anxiety.

I noted that and wondered, too, but decided not to comment. I assume that it's because the press wanted to say positive things, in sympathy; it may have been better for them to have highlighted Brianna's isolation and vulnerability. Either way, we all agree that it was a shocking, horrible crime.

@PaperWalkAndTalk CPS withdrew from the stonewall champions scheme in 2021. However I very much doubt they’ve since gone through all their policy & practice to ensure it reflects biological reality. Stonewall think will still be running deeply through the organisation

What have I just read?

Zoe Williams: reports that mother asks for killers not to be centred
Zoe Williams: centres killers

Zoe Williams: says mediocre politicians stoke up division for own purposes
Zoe Williams: writes about the trauma and anxiety of others in exaggerated and emotive way

I think she is vicariously traumatised and acting out on this.

Saschka
Yes, agree completely about the "normal teenager" crap. I think I also remember a couple of the boys being on the kill list because the girl claimed they showed her boyfriend some graphic violent videos and upset him. Obviously girl x is a massive liar, but if that is true (big if), it really does point to the damage unrestricted Internet access can do to kids.

SinnerBoy
Yes, utterly brutal crime. Poor Brianna and poor family who I'm sure will never get over it.

Tragic case. I ding think it was transphobia just evil kids. Feel for poor Brianna before their death they had only been cross dressing for a few months after having many other identities. They were apparently lured to their death by drugs and had been suspended from school previously. If they had proper support maybe wouldn’t have fallen in with these awful kids. So sad.

Zoe Williams will write anything, contradicting herself all over the place because she has no discernible ability to write intelligent, properly researched pieces, it's all about pushing whatever her agenda happens to be.

She's a prime example of a talentless private school girl who should never have got to the position she has. The Guardian should stop giving her air time

Vicariously traumatised or a horrible, shallow, exploitative human being? I know where my money is.