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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Article on AGP by Dr Joe Burgo "Sympathy for the Devil: Autogynephilia as Psychic Retreat"

52 replies

UtopiaPlanitia · 02/02/2024 01:44

Dr Burgo likes to distinguish between the 'brave men' who come to him for counselling and the bad, abusive AGPs. This article has so many words to examine these AGP men, and their shame and how much understanding and compassion they need, and no mention of their sexism or misogyny.

Burgo discusses how these men self-soothe by assuming and play-acting ideas of womanhood that are ditsy/bimbo/childlike and free from stress or responsibility, these men envy women’s ability to be placid (yup, that’s women for ya; placid all day long we are).

Burgo is dealing with a population that ostensibly wishes to reduce their paraphiliac behaviour and not with population that embraces it; I don’t believe he has a well-rounded view of the issue.

Burgo has so much compassion for these AGP men but where’s his compassion for women and what these men are doing to women and children. He wants to concentrate on building up these men’s ability to take the initiative and to be masculine. How about telling them that their ideas of womanhood are revolting and sexist Dr Burgo?

This article made me feel angry because of the omission of properly analysing the inherent sexism behind AGP but others on FWR might have different views after reading it so I thought might be interesting to discuss it.

Don’t let the early paragraphs put you off:

'Men presumed to be autogynephiles have a special power to infuriate radical feminists and others who advocate for women’s sex-based rights. To say that these women loathe AGPs would be an understatement. Porn-addled fetishists, sexual deviants, and narcissistic creeps are but a few of the caustic epithets deployed to vilify them. AGPs are self-evidently evil and scarcely human. Men who derive sexual satisfaction from putting on women’s lingerie and masturbating in front of a mirror are the devil incarnate.

In my practice as a psychotherapist, I work with a half dozen such men, some once or twice per week and others for a cluster of sessions at irregular intervals. Unlike the typical TRA who denies struggling with autogynephilia, my clients acknowledge that they’re in the grips of a sexual compulsion that torments them. They know they are not and never can be women, even though they may be tortured by the siren call to “transition.” More than anything, they long to be free of the profound shame they feel.

I approach therapy with these men just as I would with any other client–that is, with an open mind but also with a set of assumptions about human nature and what drives us. Though autogynephilia may seem almost impossible for most of us to fathom, I believe these men struggle with the same challenges the rest of us do.'

https://www.realityslaststand.com/p/sympathy-for-the-devil-autogynephilia

Sympathy for the Devil: Autogynephilia as Psychic Retreat

There’s no one-size-fits-all explanation for why some men become autogynephilic.

https://www.realityslaststand.com/p/sympathy-for-the-devil-autogynephilia?r=hy8i&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

OP posts:
Holeinamole · 03/02/2024 17:57

If I had a male friend with this kind of problem, I’d advise him to sort it out first before inflicting it on someone else. I guess you have to give Hayton credit for being honest but after all these years hearing about the weird sexual urges that seem to befall so many men, I just find it odd that women are supposed to be the irrational and over-emotional sex …

UtopiaPlanitia · 03/02/2024 18:34

OldCrone · 03/02/2024 14:15

He's saying that only a few AGPs recognise they have a problem and want to tackle it.

But when they speak about their lives, they all say that they know they have a problem and have tried to tackle it.

This is from the article about Debbie Hayton in the Times today:

From early boyhood, Hayton, now 55, fought a powerful inner urge to be female, yet went on to marry and father three children.

Hayton compares tamping down this urge to the intense, incessant effort required to keep a beachball submerged in water. Let go for a second and it will fly to the surface.

As a teenager, he’d leave his home town, Kendal, to buy women’s clothes in boutiques where he wouldn’t be recognised, cross-dressing in secret, then, after sexual release, feeling only confused self-disgust.

He barely dated girls until, in his third year at Newcastle University studying astrophysics, he met Stephanie, just 19.

When they fell in love an odd thing happened: the beachball vanished. “I thought I’d been cured,” says Hayton. “That I was finally free.” But after six months the beachball was back.

A dozen times between 25 and 45, Hayton took a bin bag of clothes to the dump, vowing to stop. Binge, purge, repeat. “I was like an alcoholic or someone trying to quit smoking.”

Every AGP tells a similar story, about an uncontrollable urge which they have tried to suppress. Most of them marry women and have children with them, which doesn't cure them, but causes enormous amounts of distress to their wives and children.

I don't know if Hayton has had any therapy for his condition, but is there any evidence that the therapy works? Has anyone ever been cured or been able to suppress their AGP urges?

I commented earlier that Burgo seems to suggest that having a female partner would help them. The evidence shows otherwise, and it shouldn't be suggested by a therapist that women should be utilised as therapeutic aids in this way.

Why are women always seen as the support staff for managing this paraphilia? From psychologists sending men out to use women’s spaces, as 'proof' that they pass, to female partners/wives being expected to work as a baffle on the raging steam boiler that is AGP?

Removing access to women, for these men, is just never considered to be an option by our sexist society is it?!

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