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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dawkins on intersex and 'sex is binary'

19 replies

RethinkingLife · 01/02/2024 20:55

The way the non-binary faithful obsess about intersexes, and about individuals who can’t produce gametes, amounts to a pathetic clutching at straws while they drown in postmodern effluent. Yes, some fish change from sperm-producing male to egg-producing female (or vice versa). That very statement relies on the gametic definition of male & female. Ditto hermaphroditic worms & snails who can produce both male & female gametes.

In any case, the existence of intersexes is irrelevant to transexualist claims, since trans people don’t claim to be intersexes. Also, as if it matters, humans are not worms, snails, or fish.

The rare tetra-amelia syndrome (babies born without limbs) does not negate the statement that Homo sapiens is a bipedal species. The rare four-winged bithorax mutation does not negate the statement that Drosophila is a Dipteran (two winged) fly. Similarly, the occasional individual who can’t produce gametes doesn’t negate the generalisation that mammals come in only two sexes, male and female, defined by games size.

Sex is binary as a matter of biological fact. "Gender" is a different matter and I leave that to others to define.

https://twitter.com/RichardDawkins/status/1753045097959100600

Very nice image in the comment thread.

Dawkins on intersex and 'sex is binary'
OP posts:
niadainud · 19/02/2024 22:34

Surprised you didn't get any response to this. Anyway - hear, hear!

ErrolTheDragon · 19/02/2024 22:41

There was another thread (somewhat misleading title, I don't think he had to be 'forced'!)

Famous evolutionary biologist forced to confirm that 'humans are not worms' www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4998458-famous-evolutionary-biologist-forced-to-confirm-that-humans-are-not-worms

Unabletomitigate · 20/02/2024 12:22

Very nice cartoon!

Gagagardener · 20/02/2024 13:08

I shall try to learn this by heart. I used to be able to learn and recite poetry (think I can still recite The Listeners) and Shakespeare, as well as roles in plays. This would be a good addition to my repertoire, making me sound learned. I'd better look up the insect...

RethinkingLife · 20/02/2024 13:10

Gagagardener · 20/02/2024 13:08

I shall try to learn this by heart. I used to be able to learn and recite poetry (think I can still recite The Listeners) and Shakespeare, as well as roles in plays. This would be a good addition to my repertoire, making me sound learned. I'd better look up the insect...

What a very useful thing to do!

I remember watching a programme in which people in their 80s could recite poems they'd learned at school. And they'd mostly left school at 14 or whatever age was legal in their youth. It was very impressive.

OP posts:
Britinme · 20/02/2024 13:13

I can do that recite by heart thing, but it's all stuff I learned when I was young in the days when we weren't allowed to take books into English Lit exams but were expected to back up our points with quotations.

ErrolTheDragon · 20/02/2024 13:16

It's easier to remember poetry and songs that rhyme and scan, though I did used to be able to reel off the opening to Under Milkwood.

Gagagardener · 20/02/2024 14:41

Come on, let's all learn it and use it in conversation!

I've got these two extracts by heart: 'Pathetic clutching at straws while they drown in post-modern effluent.' 'Sex is binary as a matter of biological fact.'

ErrolTheDragon · 20/02/2024 14:45

'Pathetic clutching at straws while they drown in post-modern effluent.'

That's probably quite widely applicable (unfortunately).

BitingtheSkirting · 20/02/2024 14:45

Gagagardener · 20/02/2024 13:08

I shall try to learn this by heart. I used to be able to learn and recite poetry (think I can still recite The Listeners) and Shakespeare, as well as roles in plays. This would be a good addition to my repertoire, making me sound learned. I'd better look up the insect...

Drosophila? Just a fruit fly, of the irritating 'bothering your bananas' sort. Very useful for genetics studies because it breeds quickly and easily.

BitingtheSkirting · 20/02/2024 14:46

Sadly, I think I can only recite things I learned before about age 15.

AbsolutelyFemale · 20/02/2024 14:46

I can still recite "Daddy fell into the pond" faultlessly which I learnt at school when I was 8......

Great article OP btw

heldinadream · 20/02/2024 14:49

Thank God for Dawkins! No, that doesn't sound quite right... 😂
Anyway, good man! 👍

niadainud · 20/02/2024 22:18

WallaceinAnderland · 20/02/2024 11:50

I still think this rap nails it - Human beings aren't clownfish

Wow. That is amazing! Absolutely brilliant.

ArabellaScott · 21/02/2024 08:31

ErrolTheDragon · 19/02/2024 22:41

There was another thread (somewhat misleading title, I don't think he had to be 'forced'!)

Famous evolutionary biologist forced to confirm that 'humans are not worms' www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4998458-famous-evolutionary-biologist-forced-to-confirm-that-humans-are-not-worms

The title was tongue in cheek.

ArabellaScott · 21/02/2024 08:33

That said, I do think he was effectively forced to make this statement, absurd as it is.

Just as Robert Winston was forced to say that it is not possilbe to change sex.

And the Endocrine society was forced to say that there are only two sexes.

ErrolTheDragon · 21/02/2024 08:57

Well quite. Forced to state bleeding obvious basic facts because of the ignorance (and downright lies) bubbling around by people purporting to be so clever.

peachescariad · 21/02/2024 09:14

WallaceinAnderland · 20/02/2024 11:50

I still think this rap nails it - Human beings aren't clownfish

Bloody brilliant! I wonder if my secondary school year group leaders would like to see it......will keep it on the back burner for the right opportunity to share it

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