Don't think this has been posted

[mzdemeanour]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-patients-mental-health-problems-zml7plwrf

A chicken or egg situation perhaps?

It's worth looking at this one too. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4301205/

Archive of the Times article. https://archive.is/7Jmys

Thanks Rain - I'm rubbish with share or archive links

I don’t like the framing that “trans people are more likely to have poor mental health because of discrimination” without including the possibility that “people with poor mental health may seek to find solutions through identifying differently.”

Co-morbidities with trans-identifying young people in particular are depression, anxiety, self harm, eating disorders, autism, loss of a parent, being in the care system, and being the victim of sexual violence. (ref Hannah Barnes’s excellent book)

I think it’s disingenuous to claim
that “people are mean” to trans identifying individuals is the cause of mental health issues rather than that they were present already in many, many cases.

Why is the Times article illustrated with a photo of Peter Tatchell falling victim to a pickpocket?

Weirdly, it seems that many participants (I can't tell how many) identified as cisgender non-binary, i.e. they identified as non-binary, and said that their gender identity was the same as their sex registered at birth.

@hallouminatus I noticed that.

I'm just puzzled at the fact that there seems to be no curiousity about causation/correlation on any link between mental health issues and transgender (or even just non-binary) identities - and no mention of the Cass report or any of the studies showing an increase or at least no decrease in mental distress and transition whatever the degree of transition.

It’s also interesting it’s non-binary that has the biggest increase. I agree more research is required particularly about the impact of other conditions and sex stereotypes.

https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/1032811

A more detailed explanation of the report. it was carried out in collaboration with the Proud Trust and the LGBT Foundation. I may be picking this up wrong but it seemed to based on 2 questions in the annual GP survey with conclusions based from other surveys carried out previously. I could be wrong.

This ideology is found to correlate with poor mental health and poor physical health. So the doctor’s objective is not to try and decrease the scale of this ideology but to increase everyone’s acceptance of it.

Replace the word ideology with anorexia in the sentence above to see how that works too.

But no one seems to feel better pretending to be a non-sexed individual or the opposite sex. So why is acceptance so demanded?

I am sure by now someone could do some stats (possibly principal components analysis) that would give an equation to predict a person’s non binary or trans status. The equations would have to be very different for young women and middle aged men as the components are so different. Then, by looking the components, it would be obvious to more people what women on this board have been saying for years.

🤯

Hang on, I was deleted today for saying the same.

Weird.

Gender identitarian medics have been trying to argue for years that all the fault lies with the wider world because we’re all so mean.

Personally, I think it’s much more likely that anyone who genuinely believes they are the opposite sex is already demonstrating a mental health problem, and one that must really mess with your mind, like any other delusion.

But I would also add that if transition doesn’t allow people to interact with the world without being distressed, then as a treatment it isn’t working. You can argue till you’re blue in the face that everyone must humour the person in their false belief about themselves, but you can’t change the world. Better to reconsider the failed treatment protocol.

The non binary figures are interesting. What's the difference between a not transgender non binary person and a transgender non binary person and why are the figures so wildly different?

As any parent knows, you can't childproof the world. You can only world -proof the child. And no therapist teaches someone in mental distress that it is the job of other people to make them happy. They teach them to take responsibility for their own feelings and meet their own needs. Which is a much stronger position rather than one of dependence and no control.

Anyone who is reliant on others, including strangers, to maintain their chosen fiction and to make them feel safe and happy, is going to be inevitably constantly disappointed. Not least when those others say no, I'm not your mum, I'm not your therapist, I'm not co dependent and I don't want to play this game with you.

@Froodwithatowel I totally agree. As a parent with a DD with an eating disorder I spend a lot of time refusing to affirm her delusions that she is fat/overweight. That hasn't stopped her beliefs but at least she is not having them affirmed at least not by me.

Weird how groups that have experienced endless grinding discrimination including an actual - not perceived - increased risk of being a victim of crime (not “someone said something I don’t like on the internet” incident “crime”; actual crime-crime) don’t have this same profile of MH issues 🤨 Weirder still that nobody is demanding everything be switched up to the satisfaction of eg disabled/black/brown/Jewish/Muslim/GRT people.

It’s almost as if one group we are constantly told are exceptionally vulnerable is in fact hugely powerful. What with their incredible access to all echelons of the establishment; fingers in all the pies; & the male privilege that TW use to trample all over women 🙄

Interesting that the rates for all drop so considerably in adults over 35. And interesting that NB has such very high scores, continuing to be around double the usual rate at all ages.

Would a group of people with a high % of personality disorders, be expected to be more likely to have long-term mental health conditions?

I think it's a question that could have an interesting answer.

'Results: The frequency of personality disorders was 81.4%. The most frequent personality disorder was narcissistic personality disorder (57.1%) and the least was borderline personality disorder. The average number of diagnoses was 3.00 per patient.'

^From the pubmed link upthread. See attached image.

And the males are 89.7%!

The masochistic-sadistic results are interesting too. MtF 28.2% and FtM 41.9%.

I haven’t read the study this article was based on but it appears to be a big leap from a survey showing mental illnesses are common in those who identify as transgender to therefore these illnesses are caused by discrimination. Is there any evidence of this (other than predetermined by the research authors)?