Emma Hardy suing David Lloyd Gyms over trans policy

[flyingbuttress43]

Believed to be the first time in the UK that a service organisation is being sued
(as opposed to cases being taken to employment tribunals ). The case is likely to come to court late this year or early next year. She is also active in her home area of York in establishing what exactly is local NHS/councils policies on the issue and warning them of the potential risks of their trans inclusive policies. NB: she says she was told by the head of biology at York University that sex was on a spectrum.......

But remember such males are nearly always “lesbians”, so want to cop their feelz with the ladieees

I've been in many David Lloyd gyms and other nicer chains @Iwasafool and they're all like that. Large padded benches, more room to move around, banks of hairdryers, straighteners and body lotion, easy to get in and out of lockers without having to take everything out, and social to chat to your friends or random strangers. Hardly anyone uses the cubicles that are there, mostly teenage girls IME. I'd hate separate cubicles, too much faff, and isolation from your friends and others.

Yeah, I totally get this. But when i've done it you're in communal room, where everyone is just doing their thing, it's all very discreet. Towels over shoulders to cover, facing the wall, no one is out and proud as it were. And there's a sort of understanding that each women is just being expedient in getting dressed.

You might get the odd woman who is a little freer, but mostly not.

And there are usually cubicles for those who want strict privacy. Not as many as there are people, but usually, enough.

Agree @Datun . How you describe is exactly how it goes at my local DLL.

Well you could use the hairdryers and straighteners when you are dressed, likewise chitchat. I've never felt the need for chitchat standing naked in a room with a crowd of other women.

@Iwasafool I accept it doesn't suit everyone, but honestly no one is standing around naked. In 25 years using DLL I don't think I have ever seen anyone else naked.

Each to their own.

That's great for you @Iwasafool but the fact expensive gyms continue to build changing rooms like that, and women rarely use the cubicles would indicate you're probably in a minority.

It sounds to me like DL have developed a way to have cheaper changing rooms, less space no cubicles and they have convinced all their high paying customers it is the way it should be.

Maybe I'm harder to con.

I prefer open plan. Much more space than a confined cubicle with a slim bench and a couple of hooks. You can change by your locker so just get things out/put away as and when. The changing areas are spacious and very clean. The hairdryers again are within the locker / change area, so no moving from a to b.
They are SO much nicer than our local public pool.

Which gym chains are NOT locker room systems ?

Wonder if the data shows a trend?
I'd hate to get changed in a room with other women, I'd prefer a cubicle.

Might start a thread somewhere aibu? Maybe. Tomorrow.

Yes, it's the same at the one I go to. There are very few individual cubicles, and they don't seem to get used much.

Please could any regular gym goers
name the chain
that does NOT use the locker room system

I disagree. I used DL for a couple of years and on several occasions there was a woman with a towel wrapped around her waist, naked above blow drying her hair. Clearly an exhibitionist.

My gym doesn’t have any any separate cubicles at all.

I’m a DL member and quite happy with the open plan communal set up - anyone who isn’t happy can use one of the very few cubicles

Basically yes, but you also have indirect sex discrimination if there is nowhere that a female can get changed without any males, and indirect religious/belief discrimination if there are no exclusively single sex spaces as practising Muslims and Jews would be excluded as they cannot be in a state of undress around members of the opposite sex (Bar their spouse).

So what happens for the people who aren’t happy and can’t get one of the “very few” cubicles by nature of there only being “very few”?

You are shown around all the facilities before you join.
If you don't like the open plan single sex changing then you don't join.

(NB I know there is a current issue wrt single sex!)

Or you join knowing sometimes you will need to wait for a cubicle.

You vote with your feet @SidewaysOtter . Personally I’m not that happy about being naked in front of others. There’s no cubicles in my gym but it’s not a deal breaker for me as the gym is great in every other respect. I strip off under a towel then put my underwear on after my shower in the shower cubicle. No big deal, you get used to it. I don’t think I’ve seen much nudity, not that I look. We’re Scottish though and not very exhibitionist. I did have a chat with a topless lady in our local pool changing rooms and she was letting it all hang out. Didn’t bother me at all, I admired her confidence (she wasn’t British needless to say!)

In summary, the single sex exemptions exist and can if proportionate exclude even transwomen with a GRC from women's single sex spaces. Spaces where people will be undressed are a classic example where single sex exemptions may be used.
Services are not obliged to use single sex exemptions.
However, if they do not, they may be said to be indirectly discriminating against women by failing to provide single sex changing which many women need to be able to access a facility. Particularly if they also take women's subscriptions without clearly communicating this situation.
Good luck Emma.

So what happens for the people who aren’t happy and can’t get one of the “very few” cubicles by nature of there only being “very few”?

There's rarely anyone at all in the cubicles in the two I've been a member of.

Even if I use one of the two cubicles to get changed that’s no use to me unless any penis havers are in the other cubicle at all times. And let’s face it they won’t be, they’ll be flapping it round the place in full view.