Hamas attacks - evidence of systematic rape

[ArabellaScott]

Obviously all the content warnings, right from the opening of this article.

In the Guardian. I'm sharing this but I'm not up to reading it tonight.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/18/evidence-points-to-systematic-use-of-rape-by-hamas-in-7-october-attacks

I should have done the same Arabella! Unfortunately I've just read it.

Unspeakable depravity.

I'm off to watch cat videos to clear my head.

Beetle, I'm sorry.

I’ve just read the article. Those poor women and girls 😥Utter depravity and lacking a shred of humanity. Were they on drugs?! How could anybody in their right mind do such a thing?

The Guardian has only just caught up. These horrific events have been known about and put in the public domain shortly after 7 October.

Were they on drugs?! How could anybody in their right mind do such a thing?

I haven't read the article, but without saying this is the case, before this became such a strangely contested in the media act of violence, some did suggest it was similar to a very violent attack by Boko Haram against women.

It was said at the time that those in charge had given drugs to those who took part, but what was also cited was the influence of online violent porn from the US. ie they had been shown videos. (This came up in a programme the focus of which was the spread of what had been a "local industry" in the US had gone world wide.) And again, before it became this media fetish of we must all comment on this, that the early reports from Israel indicated the use of drugs.

But, I am not saying this is true, because part of thinking that is as you said, "were they on drugs" because otherwise it is hard to fathom. Although rape as a weapon of war is well known but still not talked about, and is for instances happening now in other countries but western media is bothering to report, let alone endlessly comment. ie there is no sympathy for women across the globe only those who fit an agenda in the west.

Also, which the media again doesn't now comment on but was in early articles, that apart from those who took part in the Hamas attack, were those who are part of criminal gangs operating (or were operating) smuggling between Israel and Gaza, who once the fences were down entered Israel.

I think they have reported before, but since the whole UN thing, the UK and US media keep posting articles.

It would be more useful for them to report on how the investigation is going, not forgetting that initially Israeli authorities didn't think this aspect of the attack was important. ie they didn't cover it up, they just didn't record it until a group of Israeli women intervened.

The Doctrine of Hamas helps explain how the attackers carried out such atrocities. They’ve (officially, at least) toned down their original plans for all-out genocide of the Jews to focusing on the State of Israel & its citizens - you might be a neonate, but to Hamas if you’re an Israeli neonate, you’re a Zionist, it’s Jihad, & Allah totally wants you dead. The psychological side of Hamas training, as dictated by their doctrine, basically,

The men who committed the attacks will have had years - potentially their whole lifetimes - of being told that their victims were subhuman. That they were evil. They are the cause of all Palestine’s, the ME’s & indeed the world’s problems. That it is morally right to eradicate them; that God wants it & will reward them. They are wound up to inflict horrific violence & be merciless; & as PPs have mentioned, rape has been used as weapon of war since time immemorial - but the international community still doesn’t respond effectively, even 20 years after Amnesty International published Lives blown apart: Crimes against women in times of conflict. (Remember when Amnesty knew women are adult human females & advocated for us?)

There are of course specific cultural layerings to it too, given attitudes to sex & [female] virginity in the communities in question. Warping Islam from “both sexes should dress modestly” to “women who don’t dress modestly are whores & it is legitimate to brutally rape them” has been observed in other self-styled jihadist groups.

I've posted this before, but hamas have been in power in Gaza since early 2000s. That's time to raise a whole generation utterly steeped in hatred. This was their harvest.

I don't understand (well I wouldn't I'm not a monster) how they can view Jewish women as both subhuman filth and still human enough to rape.

I'm so sad and angry at the events of 7th October and those little boys raised to do this.

Why are people bothering to talk about drugs and porn? Men have been engaging in this type of activity for thousands of years. This "ideology" just gives them a neat cover.

Small consolation in the fact that the Guardian is at last acknowledging this happened.

Why are people bothering to talk about drugs and porn?

Because, as has already been said, we all know that rape is a weapon in war, but implied happening as the result of individual soldiers inflicting that act of sexual violence.

However, that is totally different, to an attack planned by the upper echelons of a paramilitary group, and dictated to their subordinates.

And will have nothing to do with any myth about people being indoctrinated about some groups of people being subhuman (not forgetting that this is an accusation levelled against Israelis, by Israelis and others in relation to Israeli children) but a deliberate (n male terms) means of humiliating the (male) enemy by desecrating "their" women.

And as said up thread, this is going on in other areas of conflict but nobody bothers to report it. Presumably because it is just Asian or African women.

Both the Russians and the Japanese armies acted in this way in Germany and Nanking respectively. Both were a result of preplanned and encouraged campaigns by their military leaders and propagandists.

Both the Russians and the Japanese armies acted in this way in Germany and Nanking respectively. Both were a result of preplanned and encouraged campaigns by their military leaders and propagandists.

Exactly - that is what the discussion about. The difference between individual men taking advantage of their power in a situation of conflict as opposed to rape as a planned weapon of war.

In this instance, in fact we dont know. And may not know for some time given the conflict is still ongoing.

Why do some posters get so antogonistic or competitive.

My response was to an early post up thread that expressed horror at what had happened, and thought it so extreme just added were they on drugs.

On one level it is really hard to understand, so cant you just let women write their thoughts and express their reactions, instead of making it sound like everyone should know everything to begin with.

There have been war-crime rapes before, but the killing of the women after the rapes and the type of depraved ways they were raped and mutilated and more should really be considered a next-level sexual war crime. The Mei Lai massacre comes to mind of a historical comparison. While I'm sure there are more, Mei Lai and 10/7 are both massacres and are, frankly, better documented because both the Israeli and US governments had the resources to do this. Mei Lai survivors were also interviewed.

Sadly, other historical comparisons will be near impossible to document well because the women would have all been killed and quickly buried or burned.

Look up the Rape of Nanking. Not to play tit for tat because what happened in My Lai horrific but what happened in Nanking was on a completely different level. And unlike My Lai, was a result of preplanned campaign of encouragement.

Yes. Thanks - I'd forgotten that one.

Because of this thread I did a bit of googling and found these historic references:

Its use as a weapon of war was gruesomely demonstrated during World War II, when both Allied and Axis armies committed rape as a means of terrorizing enemy civilian populations and demoralizing enemy troops. Two of the worst examples were the sexual enslavement of women in territories conquered by the Japanese army and the mass rape committed against German women by advancing Russian soldiers.

Partly posting this section as the UK and other European countries are equally part of this ongoing crime https://www.britannica.com/topic/rape-crime/Rape-as-a-weapon-of-war

Also I started to wonder if in fact rape as a weapon of war was recognised as a War Crime. Seems a bit hazy.

The Geneva Conventions of 1949 and subsequent amendments recognize sexual violence during conflict in broad terms. The Rome Statute classifies rape and other forms of sexual violence as crimes against humanity and war crimes, depending on the context in which the crimes are committed. Under certain circumstances, sexual violence can be categorized as a crime of torture or an act of genocide. Various other national and international bodies have condemned the use of sexual violence in conflicts.

Sexual violence during conflict can be divided into three overarching categories: a war tactic, widely committed with an intentional purpose; tolerated, but not specifically ordered, by leaders; and committed independently by individuals when the opportunity arises.

While international law provides wide protections against sexual violence, enforcement of these provisions is weak.
https://www.thinkglobalhealth.org/article/devastating-use-sexual-violence-weapon-war#:~:text=The%20Geneva%20Conventions%20of%201949,which%20the%20crimes%20are%20committed.

I think I got muddled because I thought the initiative that was headlined by Angelina Jolie and William Hague was about strengthening prosecutions. But in fact seems to be something separate:

International Alliance on Preventing Sexual Violence in Conflict
The Alliance is a group of states, multilateral partners, civil society organisations and survivors that coordinates action on conflict-related sexual violence.
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/international-alliance-on-preventing-sexual-violence-in-conflict