Definitions

[MusselTryHarder]

Hello lovely mumsnetters. I am doing a training course and have been asked to provide some definitions for the terms transgender, transgender woman and man, and cisgender. They need to be evidence based. Are there any sources that provide such definitions from a gender critical perspective? I'm keen to not use Stonewall's AFAB/AMAB definitions, nor using phrases such as living as a man/woman etc, but my search into GC resources has not provided fruitful. I still want to acknowledge that some people believe in gender identity and that is real to them (however much I personally disagree with the ramifications) in the same vein as some people believe in other religions. My definitions so far are likely to be too provocative, but if I can quote a respected source it might have a better chance of getting through.

(And if no such GC definitions exist, might it be worth creating them??)

I don't know of any but yes it would be good to have some.

Transgender: a desire to be, or belief that you are, not the sex you actually are

Cisgender: the state of having a gender identity and believing it matches your sex. Considered to be a slur when used to describe a person who isn't trans but has not self-identified as cis, often due to their not having a gender identity.

What do you think?

Evidence based? Good luck in finding anything to back up the modern definitions, which are entirely dependent upon subjective feelings and therefore are evidence free.

Perhaps those organising the course are secretly GC and they are waiting to see what happens when people actually try to look for the evidence…

The Transgender Trend School resource pack has a glossary. Downloadable here:

https://www.transgendertrend.com/product/school-resource-pack-3rd-edition-digital-download/

Here are their definitions of transgender and cisgender.

Transgender
The usual definition is someone whose gender identity does not match the
gender/sex they were assigned at birth. This suggests that a person’s sex is an idea which is imposed and gender identity is the real marker of whether someone is a boy or a girl. ‘Transgender’ or ‘trans’ is also used as an umbrella term for people with different gender identities, cross‑dressers, transsexuals and even people who don't conform to traditional gender roles. A person who identifies as transgender does not necessarily suffer gender dysphoria.

Cisgender
Cisgender or ‘cis’ is a word used politically in trans activism to describe people
who are not trans. A ‘cis woman’ for example is a woman ‘whose identity matches the gender they were assigned at birth.’ Some people reject the label ‘cis’ for the reason that it imposes on them a gender identity they do not feel or agree with. In youth culture ‘cis’ has come to suggest conventional /conforming while ‘trans’ represents unconventional /subversive /edgy.

Are you making up the materials for this course?

Of course, you could point out that a “transgender woman” is a man who claims he is a woman and ask them to provide evidence to the contrary.

I’d suggest referring to the definitions in the Equality Act 2010 and the GRA 2004, as they set the legal framework within the UK. The law has to be complied with, so that should be your starting point.

You could then have a look at the EHRC guidance.

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/equality/equality-act-2010/your-rights-under-equality-act-2010/gender-reassignment-discrimination

You could have a look at the DofE schools guidance which talks about “gender questioning children”.

Then if there is a professional body for your sector, look up what they say.

You can’t really just make up your own definitions. It’s slightly odd the trainers are asking you to do that.

I would absolutely not make up your own definitions. I feel that way trouble lies. If someone takes issue with what you are saying and complains and it's identified as your personal opinion that may play out quite differently to if you can say you were just quoting an already published definition.

I don't see a problem with presenting the Stonewall definitions with the caveat that these are contentious and not universally accepted.

I still want to acknowledge that some people believe in gender identity and that is real to them

Gender identity isn’t a belief. It’s the sense someone has that they are male, female, both, neither, etc.

It’s possible to have beliefs about that sense, and there are numerous different beliefs people can have about it, but gender identity itself isn’t a belief.

If you believe your sense that you are male, female, both, neither, etc is because you have a pink, blue, some other colour brain, then that’s a belief. If you think you ‘just know’ you are male, female, etc magically without using your senses to sense your body characteristics, that’s another belief. There are many more.

The way you have talked about wanting to acknowledge that some people believe in gender identity sounds odd, and like you don’t understand what gender identity is at all. Like if you said I want to acknowledge that some people believe they have a sense of being British, but you’re either born in Britain or you aren’t; there’s no such thing as having a sense of being British. That people think they have a nationality isn’t a belief; we know people think they have a nationality. We know thinking you’re British isn’t the same thing as liking to drink cups of tea, or another British stereotype. It’s exactly the same with gender identity. We know people have a sense of being male, female, etc. We know they have lots of different beliefs about why they have that sense. We know having that sense isn’t the same as liking pink, or any other stereotype.

Gender identity isn’t a belief. It’s the sense someone has that they are male, female, both, neither, etc.

It absolutely is a belief. There is no evidence that such a sense exists.

you can cite this paper from Alice Sullivan if you want academic refs

Sullivan, A. (2020). Sex and the census: why surveys should not conflate sex and gender identity. International Journal of Social Research Methodology, 23(5), 517-524.

https://xyonline.net/sites/xyonline.net/files/2020-08/Sullivan%2C%20Sex%20and%20the%20census%20-%20why%20surveys%20should%20not%20conflate%20sex%20and%20gender%20identity%202020.pdf

Thanks OldCrone and LoobiJee! That was exactly what I was after. I don't feel comfortable writing my own definitions, it has "trap" written all over it!

Peasandsweetcorn I do absolutely have a concrete understanding of what GI is. I was trying to tread an almost docstockk line of acknowledging that it is impossible to know for sure what is in someone else's mind. For instance, I may not have a gender identity, and I may not believe that it exists as a general concept, but someone may say that they do have a gender identity and it informs their reality. At some point you are just going to have to accept some people do believe this stuff and try to move forward. Sort of analogous to a religious belief that I do not share I suppose. What I object to and will defend, is being compelled to share this belief, whether explicitly using the TWAW mantra, or implicitly by uncritically using definitions I don't subscribe to.

Thanks all!

And here are Prof Sullivan's definitions in full

(1) Sex: In humans, sex is a binary biological category. Individuals are classified by reproductive function as male or female. Sex is determined in utero, and is immutable (Kashimada & Koopman, 2010; Sobel et al., 2004).

(2) Gender: The term ‘gender’ refers to the stereotypes and social roles that are associated with each sex (Scott, 1986). Gender is a social category, rather than an individual one, and refers to how society sees girls and boys and women and men, based on their sex. Gender refers to the hierarchical power structure between men and women (Oakley, 1998).

(3) Gender identity: The term ‘gender identity’ refers to some people’s sense that they identify psychologically as a member of the male or female sex, particularly when this identity clashes with their biological sex. It refers to how individuals see themselves, rather than how society sees them.

This is the Transgender Trend definition of gender identity.

Gender identity
This word was previously used in child development texts to denote the child’s
understanding of being male or female. The current usage suggests an innate
identity which is present from birth and immune to parental or societal influence. It is described as a pre‑social deep inner sense of being a boy or a girl. There is no scientific evidence that we are born with an essential feminine or masculine essence or soul which exists independent of both gendered socialisation and biological sex. The idea of a ‘female brain’ in a male body is not supported by neuroscience research which shows that human brains are more of a mosaic of both ‘feminine’ and ‘masculine’ characteristics. Although there are differences between male and female brains the human brain is not sexually dimorphic as it is not a biological reproductive sex organ. Feminising or masculinising influences on the brain such as pre‑natal hormone levels do not override and cannot change a person’s biological sex.

Transgender: non conformity to socially constructed gender norms of one's sex.

That would be my attempt at a definition

The Prof Sullivan definitions which Parietal has linked to do the job perfectly I’d say, OP.

That is closer to it.

The concept definitely exists, but people have different beliefs about what the concept refers to (like any other concept). If you can explain what your sense of being female/male etc is based on, and acknowledge that other people may have different beliefs about what their sense of that is based on, you should be fine.

Thanks Parietal. Much obliged.

If you can explain what your sense of being female/male etc is based on, and acknowledge that other people may have different beliefs about what their sense of that is based on, you should be fine.

This seems like rather an odd attempt to conflate knowledge of your sex with denial of your sex.

@PriOn1 that is almost what I wrote... but with the concession of having a transgender gender identity. As has been pointed out, definitely on much safer ground with some sources I can cite!

I can't follow all you're saying here but many people don't have a gender identity and just call themselves woman because that's what we call people with their body types. So once we recognise that some people 'have' this and some people don't, we can see it's a belief. Because you can know you're a woman without that belief.

I can't follow all you're saying here but many people don't have a gender identity and just call themselves woman because that's what we call people with their body types. So once we recognise that some people 'have' this and some people don't, we can see it's a belief. Because you can know you're a woman without that belief.

But honestly that describes moat people so which gender norms do you mean?

On that definition, I’m transgender. But no-one else would be likely to see me that way. There are so many socially constructed gender norms, and they have changed in the UK during my lifetime. I do not fit all the norms of my sex. Nor does my wife fit all the norms of her sex. One of the norms used to be that women were expected to do the cooking, for example. Is it the cooking norm of the ‘80s or the cooking norm of today that I have not to conform to in order to be transgender? And do I become transgender if I move to a very conservative US State where men are real men?

Get hold of Helen Joyce's book "trans".
It'll cost you a tenner and save you a lot of work

Exactly @RapidOnsetGenderCritic by that definition, my oh and I are both transgender but I'm not sure that our presentation as a white, middle class, apparently heterosexual couple is really compatible with both of us being the most oppressed group of all time ever.