What does GC gender critical mean?

[Itsholly]

What do you determine the definition of this term?

Is it a relatively new term, my understanding is that it means you are critical of gender - so if someone is born male and identifies as a different gender, say a woman, then I would be gender critical if I was critical of this particular circumstance?

Is it against the law or rules at work to openly admit you are gender critical? I mean, I am, but can I outwardly say I am?

Also - is gender critical what a trans person may refer to as a terf? Like, is it the same thing?

Thanks

TRAs, in their lovely fascist way, will call anyone who doesn't tow their line a "terf".

Being GC is simply stating science and facts.

'Gender critical ' isn't that new a term.

I first came across it on MN FWR long before there was any discussion of 'gender identity' and trans issues. It was simply about being critical of gender stereotypes and recognising how damaging the gender boxes are. It's the mindset which gave rise to 'let toys be toys'. Its the sort of thing analysed in Cordelia Fine's 'Delusions of Gender' (do read it if you haven't) - which nowadays probably would get cancelled for its name but it's got nothing at all to do with trans/gender identity issues.

Of course, if you're critical of gender stereotypes and have a realistic understanding of sex and structural sexism, then you won't be taken in by 'genderism'.

I don't mind trans people. They are what they are, and to the extent they disagree with me (and not all of them do) about the contentious areas, I think they are protecting themselves psychologically.

It's the others that bug me. The public sector, charities, the media. Young people. John Oliver FFS. They are so tenacious and impossible to debate with. Why?

I know a bit and sometimes look at this board but feel the term and the way the other posts read is as though I don't fully grasp the whole picture.

I'm genuinely surprised that my question isn't considered to be just that and nothing more.

Oh yes I see what I did there whereas I was trying not to conflate the two in my opening post and have still managed to do it.

This is really helpful history of the term and interesting that you consider it now meaningless.

I feel that terf is also not the correct term to describe my views.

Perhaps a brand new term is needed or maybe there is another term that I am not familiar with which fits my beliefs. (That trans people are more than welcome to go about their own life as they see fit, wearing what they like and being with who they like in a relationship- but absolutely not encroaching into women's spaces or sport - that is where my personal line is drawn.)

What is TLDR?

Too Long / Didn’t Read

I think when you say why are we talking about this again it demonstrates how far forward thinking the people on this board are. Unfortunately many, including myself, have taken a while to come around to this way of thinking and to really appreciate the heaviness of this subject. It was the thread about the gym changing rooms and some of the posts identifying all the things wrong with the gym approach that got me thinking more deeply about it.

I browsed this board and saw GC a lot and the presence of terf as a term and was trying to work out what category I fit into based on my own thoughts of the subject matter.

So when you say oh this again or feel like the same old basic question pops up time and time again, please try to have a little patience with us that are just catching up.

I suppose in theory there may be situations where just saying you are GC could be harassment, like if you had a transwoman colleague who sat at the desk next to you and every time they spoke to you, you said "Did you know I am gender critical?"

Could it work the other way, too? If a transwomen constantly talked about being trans and a woman in front of someone they know is gender critical?

There is a term to describe your beliefs: normal.

There's a Venn diagram which can be useful for understanding this - the real 'gender critical' position is what's labelled '2nd wave feminism'.

Transactivists either ignorantly or wilfully confuse GC with the conservatives/religious mindset but it's very different.

So should I say I'm a second wave feminist?

Why do you need to label yourself?

You could settle for a person who prioritises sex over gender when sex matters for the needs of women and children.

@Itsholly The saying is that women are oppressed because of their biology, and gender is the way it's done.

And in feminism, gender did indeed mean damaging stereotypes.

You have to remember that until the 1970s women weren't allowed to have their own mortgages because they were considered financially unreliable. Prior to that they weren't allowed to be educated at university, because education was what men did, while women stay in the kitchen or raise children. Rape within marriage was perfectly legal until 1991, because it's women's role to supply sex on demand, even when they don't want to.

All these things will be considered gender stereotyping. Women must do this, whilst men must do that.

And it's imposed by society.

It's obviously not innate that women can't handle money, responsibility and power, but even now, you will get many men who are quite happy to say they can't.

So of course the term 'gender critical feminist' is almost a tautology. You can't be a feminist without being critical of gender.

Trans ideology cements gender. It says if a man thinks a certain way, he must be a woman, because that's how women think. Or if he feels a certain way, or dresses a certain way.

The entire ideology relies on the sexism of underpinning the stereotype boxes. This is what women do, and this is what men do.

Look at every single child whose parents claim is trans, and you will hear how the boy wants to wear a tutu, or the girl didn't like to wear dresses. All gender stereotyping. And all sexist.

A lot of people think it's just now an all encompassing term for people who disagree with the ideology because it is detrimental to women. But that's the origin of the term.

Women are oppressed because of their biology, and gender is the means by which it's done - don't give them a bank account, don't give them a mortgage, don't educate them, make them have unconsenting sex.

That was then.

Now we've got take all their awards, represent them on shortlists and in businesses, so they are unrepresented, take away their sport, take away their spaces.

And even their name.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...

@Datun

Thank you for your very articulate and logical post. It's really helpful. I feel all of what you have said but I'm not as good at explaining it in words.

There used to be a nice infographic using stick figures that articulated my beliefs re: gender critical but I can't find it any more.

Basically it was:

Socially conservative people believe that you should have preferences/personality (gender) based on your body (sex) (ie female = pink and sparkly)

TRAs believe that your preferences/personality determines your body (ie pink and sparkly = female)

GC feminists don't believe that preferences/personality have anything to do with your sexed body. Men and women can both like/hate/be indifferent to pink and sparkly.

@ditalini your description is spot on.

I was having a conversation with someone whose relative was going through a thing where they were living as a girl, although born as a boy. This is a minor.

I had to ask what does that mean???? I'm still baffled by this.

Yes, you feel it, because you are living it. You know to be true, but you haven't got the context to describe it.

Nor did I.

I describe it as late onset feminism!

That's how it felt to me. It's highly contagious.

I only use "gender critical" rarely - when I need a quick short-hand to describe in general individuals, groups and thought that disagree with gender ideology and hold there are 2 sexes but have nothing else in common. So if I was talking about public figures like Ricky Gervais or Piers Morgan I would say 'gc' because obvs neither are feminists or women's rights campaigners.

I don't use it for myself as I find it a bit of a cringe term (like Baby Led Weaning) for individuals. I think 'gc feminist' is redundant but I understand why we use the phrase to distinguises ourselves from the Lib Fem "dresses with pockets" variety.

This is an example that's similar (from the sadly banned gender critical subreddit).

Not dissing you for not being up to speed. Frustrated because this has been going on such a long time and it's not fixed yet!

Yes lots of people disagree with the ideology on several different fronts.

Sport is one. You've got loads of people who would never consider themself feminist who can easily see the inherent unfairness in men competing as women.

Or sending rapists into women's prisons to access incarcerated women.

There's hardly a person on the planet who would think that was okay. You don't have to be a feminist.

I don't think they would call themselves gender critical, or gender critical feminists.

But they do, quite clearly disagree with the ideology anyway.

I agree with it on that basis too, of course. But also the sexism of deciding that a man could be a woman on any basis other than biology.

it's a biological distinction. The same in any other mammal.

Helen Joyce says that when she says this, people hear something else. They hear therefore, women should be nurturing, supportive, or some other social role. Something that makes them secondary, or inferior.

Would it help if the medical professionals didn't or perhaps were forbidden to do anything about people that want to change sex? Except perhaps for some mental health guidance if needed or education that what they are feeling isn't that they are in the wrong body but something else?