Helen Joyce on Andrew Gold's Heretics

[RethinkingLife]

Helen being Helen's clear and articulate self on the topic of sex and why: Only a man can 'identity' as a trans woman

%7Cheretics.

This is a good primer for anyone who is new to the discussion of issues with prioritising gender over sex in all matters.

Yes. It may be faux-naïf but Andrew Gold is not knowledgeable on the topic (a sense of Triggernometry pre-KJK's interview) so it is a good primer for 'beginners'.

It's also very handy for the gems of brief, clear explanations for those who are feeling their way towards having conversations about it. E.g., how to handle the 'clownfish gotcha'.

I watched that. He's changed his tune. About six months ago I suggest to him that he talk about this isssue and he was all ''wanna be kind''. So on the fence. He's click hungry. You could tell he still doesn't really get it.

He's click hungry. You could tell he still doesn't really get it.

I can understand the marketing drive to attract a solid base of subscribers from the outset and to grow to meet the YT monetisation algorithms.

https://twitter.com/AndrewGold_ok

It will be interesting to see if, and how, his perspective changes on this topic. Maybe it won't be until he interviews KJK. He certainly had plenty of food for thought with Helen Joyce.

I mentioned the faux-naïf angle because, iirc, Gold discusses Louis Theroux while talking to Sonia Poulson. In passing, Gold also mentions that he's got 3 books coming out, one in April (and that does look very interesting). It was fascinating to learn how the BBC will offer some documentary makers such a tiny amount for their work (less than it cost to make) and throw money at others.

I've watched a few so far and mostly found something to disagree with in all of them (bar Helen Joyce) but I've enjoyed that.

Thanks for this. I absolutely love Helen Joyce and could listen to her all day.

That bit about noises in the showers, ewwwww 😬

That puzzled me. Not part of my lengthy experience of men’s changing rooms!

The only time I've heard comparable reports has been on some of the former prisoner channels on YT. That's been more about the icky state of the showers and the position of the job of cleaning them in the prison job hierarchy and less about the noises (although they've not been popular).

Around the time they were discussing the noises, I needed to pause for a moment and Helen's face was just 😬😬😬

If he progresses like the Triggernometry boys it’ll be interesting to watch him peaking in real time. Although, he’s started with Helen Joyce, so maybe his trajectory will take less time than theirs did as they only got around to interviewing Helen this summer.

I think he’s likely seen the very high viewing numbers for lots of other YT channels’ interviews with Joyce, Linehan, and Boghossian etc on other channels and decided he wants in on that. It may also be that now that 'no debate' has less suppressive force he feels more inclined to tackle this topic that is in the media a lot more than it was years ago. At any rate, the more audiences that are exposed to reality (and the awesomeness of Helen Joyce ripping this ideology into shreds) the better.

I think he’s likely seen the very high viewing numbers for lots of other YT channels’ interviews with Joyce, Linehan, and Boghossian etc on other channels

Nothing compared to the likes of Lex Fridman who has a wider net than 'heretics' but I suppose Triggernometry has demonstrated that there is a UK market if Gold can establish a distinctive niche.

I'd like a stronger UK presence. Helen Joyce and Maya Forstater would make good podcast anchors. I'd probably enjoy a podcast produced by whoever makes up Legal Feminists. Overall, I'm probably just demonstrating my ignorance of the podcast and influencer landscape in the UK.

Helen and KJK have both been interviewed by Meghan Kelly, and are mentioned often by her, so they have some level of name recognition with her audience - it probably makes them more attractive as guests for other podcasts who are heterodox or non-woke.

And I know Helen has been interviewed by Coleman Hughes, Peter Boghossian, and Jordan Peterson as well, so she’s making inroads with North Americans.

In the UK she’s tended to be on smaller podcasts but between Richard Dawkins, Triggernometry, and Andrew Gold (and the IEA) she’s building a presence over here. She’s often asked on for news commentary by LBC, Talk Radio, and GB News so who knows, some day the BBC might 'rediscover' her 🤷‍♀️🙄 and KJK is often asked to comment on those UK stations too.

I do like your idea of a Sex Matters podcast with Maya and Helen - one for their suggestion box??

I started off thinking i'll just watch a bit of this, but of course I watched it all; Helen speaks so well. As she rightly said, that footage of Peter and Freda was hilarious! My DS, God love him, is a David Lloyd member down in ThatLondon, and I'm going to find it hard to resist asking about the noises in the showers! 😆

At least GC ppl in the UK and Ireland are all across the spectrum. In the USA most seem to be pretty far right and include a fair few religious cranks, wingnuts and misogynists. Of course this is not the case for most ordinary decent ppl I hasten to add - was thinking more of the prominent media types.

Andrew gold has interviewed glinner!!! And Richard Dawkins, who was very GC in his interview..... He must know the key arguments by now, and as he said to Helen, he can't get anyone from the opposing team to come on his show!!

But it still blows my mind how little most people know about this..... I watched the triggernometry 2023 round up the other day, with Andrew Doyle and Geoff norcott. They talked about the GC stuff at length and Geoff norcott said several times that he didn't know any of the stuff they were talking about, it had 'blown his mind.' he obviously had some very 'be kind, let people be themselves' ideas to begin with, but it was the Tavistock stuff and Stonewall calling lesbians bigots for not sleeping with trans women that he didn't seem to know about...... On the whole this is still a mystery to most people, even prolific commentators like Norcott. Due to the media black out I should think....

A decent watch:

Thanks for the link Rabbitwoman, I’m looking forward to watching that 👍

I’ve queued up a few Andrew Gold interviews: Francis Foster, Peter Boghossian, Richard Dawkins, Graham Linehan, and Helen Joyce. I’m watching Helen’s at the mo. Must say tho, Andrew picked a rotten thumbnail for her interview - why he decided on that particular image I dunno but I hope he changes it.

I also listened to the podcast Andrew did about the Twin Flames cult while I was doing the washing up - that stuff is proper bonkers 🤪🤯

Gosh the Sonia Poulton one 👀

Utopia both the Netflix and prime documentaries about that are similarly 🤪😵‍💫🙃😱

Helen Joyce was very good in this interview as per usual. Think she needs to be awarded the Victoria Cross for appearing in that awful panel alongside peter tatchell and that weird fetish bloke in fishnets (who is quite clearly trolling women, hence I feel ok with describing him this way).

As an aside, I know Andrew and he’s a really good guy. And I’m a nobody ie not fellow a journalist / successful media player building him up or anything like that (I assume they all do that for each other a bit like real celebrities do - that really winds me up!). How he is in interviews is pretty much what he’s like IRL. Reasonable and rational, likes to see things from all sides. He’s genuine and very nice (but not in a “just be kind” way, haha).

Oh yes, her description of Freida Wallace in his fish net tights was horrendous.

I really enjoyed Richard Dawkins interview with HJ, as he kept up and even in parts where he thought that men who had bottom surgery deserved to be considered women, she was able to set him right. No, it's not a prize for effort. I feel that he got it, in the moment.

@MouseAnon89 Interesting to hear you say you know AG. He comes across as a real people pleaser, I think that's what will prevent him from getting the big numbers. Even when HJ said something about a conversation she'd had with a rabbi, he couldn't just laugh at the humour in that interaction, he instantly had to come in with ''what are they up to?'' (Orthodox Jewish Rabbis). He had no reason to think that the Rabbi that HJ spoke to was up to anything. I'm not Jewish but I feel that he cannot even stand behind his own background, his own upbringing. His religion is to be on the fence. Bizarrely, while I don't know HJ's brothers, I met a few of them at least once when we were growing up. My Dad has an interest in a sport that is quite niche in Ireland and that's how I met her brothers.

I find it hard to place Katie Herzog or Jesse Singal anywhere in a far right, religious cranks, wingnuts and misogynists club, and they seem to have plenty of followers despite the efforts of the genderists.

I admire the publicity she's brought to DV.

The only dominant UK podcast I know is Steve Bartlett's Diary of a CEO. Are there others I should sample to have some sense of the UK podcast landscape given that I'm starting from almost zero?

I have a few left-wing friends in the US who are gender-critical. They're too scared to speak out, though. It's a sad state of affairs.

I do hope 2024 will be the year when Helen Joyce gets the mainstream coverage she deserves. She's brilliant to listen to. I agree that the Heretics podcast makes a good explainer for beginners, but as someone who's been following for years now, I was riveted. The BBC needs to get her on.

Niche sport in Ireland. My first thought was handball. But it has to be cricket!