It's what men of today are prepared to sacrifice not women

CatMumBat · 2023-12-26T21:41:43+00:00

This is something I'm thinking through but probably haven't got right yet so very happy to hear other opinions... The thinking seems to be that women could or could not have it all. A job, children, hobbies, self care etc. Actually in my life, it should be more about what my partner is prepared to accept. Hear me out... I'm lucky enough to have a part time job that pays full time wages but my partner seems to think that I should be putting half the bills in financially and doing all the grunt work. So, my question is, should he be prepared to be the provider and pay the majority of the bills whilst I do the majority of the grunt work or should I be doing half the grunt work and pay half the bills? I think that feminism regardless, he can't have it both ways?

terffert · 26/12/2023 21:50

The very terminology "sacrificing" suggests a situation relative to something that's normal, though. The idea that it's normal for a man to focus on work and have someone else concern themselves with house, children, family, life, is what got us into this mess.

People need to compromise. Different compromises will work for different people and different families. If you tell the story of a family involving an adult male and an adult woman, and it sounds reasonable with the people one way round but ridiculously unfair if you swap the people and tell it again, you've likely hit sexism. It's not really very complicated, just difficult to fix because so pervasive.

JenniferBooth · 26/12/2023 21:57

@CatMumBat quick question. Who paid on dates? did you go halves?

Froodwithatowel · 26/12/2023 21:59

There's been a conversation doing the rounds on social media where a man is texting about how he wants a traditional wife who keeps herself looking good, keeps the house nice, looks after him and the kids etc. And she says rather ironically oh great, I'd love to have a man bring in all the money and take care of me, and he angrily calls her a gold digger. She then points out that what did he see his side of this bargain as?

Plus as MNetters know so well, a woman not working and reliant on a partner while they raise children has put herself in a very vulnerable situation if the relationship goes wrong. It takes one hell of a lot of trust.

AuContraire · 26/12/2023 22:00

He should be putting in 50% of the effort.

That doesn’t mean that he should only pay 50% of bills if he can earn twice as much as you with the same effort. It does mean one partner shouldn't have 20 hours of downtime in the week while the other is constantly skivvying about.

RethinkingLife · 26/12/2023 22:10

I'm lucky enough to have a part time job that pays full time wages

I never really know what people mean by PT as it seems to vary from 8-30 hours a week.

It does mean one partner shouldn't have 20 hours of downtime in the week while the other is constantly skivvying about

Agreed, it doesn't follow automatically that, for most people, PT = oceans of time and energy and therefore a responsibility to do all the grunt work. Or, as is so often the case, someone spending most of their w/e on hobbies or socialising while leaving everything else up to their partner because of a disparity in income.

Rainbowqueeen · 26/12/2023 22:13

I don’t see it as men sacrificing. I see it as men actually recognising that running the household, emotional labour and mental load have value. They have fully embraced a 50-50 split on finances but not on these other equally important parts of life. And women are now wising up to this and not willing to put up with it.

Its not a sacrifice, it’s being willing to pull their weight.

Original poster

CatMumBat · 26/12/2023 22:14

So this was 25 years ago when he massively out earned me. He probably paid more and I paid somethings before children etc. Now we have 2 kids and actually in real terms, I out earn him but we probably pay 50/50 on nights out

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Original poster

CatMumBat · 26/12/2023 22:15

Well this is what I mean. I'd probably rather pay the half and do half less of the grunt work...

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Original poster

CatMumBat · 26/12/2023 22:16

Just realised my replies aren't quoting what I'm answering.. Sorry for any confusion...

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Original poster

CatMumBat · 26/12/2023 22:17

JenniferBooth · 26/12/2023 21:57

@CatMumBat quick question. Who paid on dates? did you go halves?

So this was 25 years ago when he massively out earned me. He probably paid more and I paid somethings before children etc. Now we have 2 kids and actually in real terms, I out earn him but we probably pay 50/50 on nights out

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PsychoHotSauce · 26/12/2023 22:18

Rainbowqueeen · 26/12/2023 22:13

I don’t see it as men sacrificing. I see it as men actually recognising that running the household, emotional labour and mental load have value. They have fully embraced a 50-50 split on finances but not on these other equally important parts of life. And women are now wising up to this and not willing to put up with it.

Its not a sacrifice, it’s being willing to pull their weight.

Yes. It's selective equality. Once again men have taken female progress and turned it to their advantage.

Lovingitallnow · 26/12/2023 22:18

We do equal downtime equal spends. Everything we earn is ours and we aim for the same amount of downtime and discretionary money. I think trying to measure contribution is too difficult so we measure the nice bits.

Original poster

CatMumBat · 26/12/2023 22:18

Rainbowqueeen · 26/12/2023 22:13

I don’t see it as men sacrificing. I see it as men actually recognising that running the household, emotional labour and mental load have value. They have fully embraced a 50-50 split on finances but not on these other equally important parts of life. And women are now wising up to this and not willing to put up with it.

Its not a sacrifice, it’s being willing to pull their weight.

Well this is what I mean. I'd probably rather pay the half and do half less of the grunt work...

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Original poster

CatMumBat · 26/12/2023 22:22

RethinkingLife · 26/12/2023 22:10

I'm lucky enough to have a part time job that pays full time wages

I never really know what people mean by PT as it seems to vary from 8-30 hours a week.

It does mean one partner shouldn't have 20 hours of downtime in the week while the other is constantly skivvying about

Agreed, it doesn't follow automatically that, for most people, PT = oceans of time and energy and therefore a responsibility to do all the grunt work. Or, as is so often the case, someone spending most of their w/e on hobbies or socialising while leaving everything else up to their partner because of a disparity in income.

It's 30 hours and my kids are at school during that time

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Original poster

CatMumBat · 26/12/2023 22:28

PsychoHotSauce · 26/12/2023 22:18

Yes. It's selective equality. Once again men have taken female progress and turned it to their advantage.

Show quote history

So this is actually what I'm asking I think. How did it turn from women having it all, which I don't think was ever a thing really, to men getting a much easier ride?

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SidewaysOtter · 26/12/2023 22:32

Rainbowqueeen · 26/12/2023 22:13

I don’t see it as men sacrificing. I see it as men actually recognising that running the household, emotional labour and mental load have value. They have fully embraced a 50-50 split on finances but not on these other equally important parts of life. And women are now wising up to this and not willing to put up with it.

Its not a sacrifice, it’s being willing to pull their weight.

I completely agree with this. Too often just the financial value is considered; everything else is seen as women’s work and valueless.

Original poster

CatMumBat · 26/12/2023 22:39

Froodwithatowel · 26/12/2023 21:59

There's been a conversation doing the rounds on social media where a man is texting about how he wants a traditional wife who keeps herself looking good, keeps the house nice, looks after him and the kids etc. And she says rather ironically oh great, I'd love to have a man bring in all the money and take care of me, and he angrily calls her a gold digger. She then points out that what did he see his side of this bargain as?

Plus as MNetters know so well, a woman not working and reliant on a partner while they raise children has put herself in a very vulnerable situation if the relationship goes wrong. It takes one hell of a lot of trust.

All of these things are true, as you say

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EmpressSoleil · 26/12/2023 22:46

I think that if a couple want a more traditional set up of man earns the money, woman looks after the house. That's their choice and fine. Likewise if a couple want to share finances and share household/kids related stuff.

But all too often, as you say, men want a woman financing 50% of everything but doing 95% of everything else. I say 95% as they might run a hoover round sometimes or load the dishwasher and expect copious amounts of praise for it!

I'm kind of sick of reading on here about all the women expected to save up and fund their own maternity leave and they must still be able to pay their 50% of the bills. Despite it being a child both partners created. How did we end up there? And why are women accepting it? Women walking round with holes in their shoes as they can't afford a new pair yet their "D"H is spending £££ on his hobby. Yes I have seen more than one thread along those lines. It frustrates me.

Original poster

CatMumBat · 26/12/2023 22:55

EmpressSoleil · 26/12/2023 22:46

I think that if a couple want a more traditional set up of man earns the money, woman looks after the house. That's their choice and fine. Likewise if a couple want to share finances and share household/kids related stuff.

But all too often, as you say, men want a woman financing 50% of everything but doing 95% of everything else. I say 95% as they might run a hoover round sometimes or load the dishwasher and expect copious amounts of praise for it!

I'm kind of sick of reading on here about all the women expected to save up and fund their own maternity leave and they must still be able to pay their 50% of the bills. Despite it being a child both partners created. How did we end up there? And why are women accepting it? Women walking round with holes in their shoes as they can't afford a new pair yet their "D"H is spending £££ on his hobby. Yes I have seen more than one thread along those lines. It frustrates me.

Yes! This is what I'm asking... Can't have it all ways and this is what is annoying me right now. If he wants 50% of the bills paid, which I can do no problem, then I need 50% of the grunt work done. The meal planning, the shopping, the cooking, the washing, just the bare minimum stuff that keeps the family ticking over. Or let me keep my money and I'll do the grunt work...

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JenniferBooth · 26/12/2023 23:19

@EmpressSoleil Because women are falling over themselves to try and prove they are not gold diggers. You see it on the "who should pay on dates" threads all the time

learieonthewildmoor · 27/12/2023 05:15

Women now think of themselves as full human beings. We are still socialised to be caring and nurturing, but we are no longer brought up to think of ourselves as lesser than men. We aren’t taught we are a rib of a man, and are not complete unless we have a man to serve.
The problem is that many men have been bypassed by this change. They still think of women as their support act. She’s meant to do all the grunt works and she likes it! It’s her ordained destiny and her nature. They don’t see women as full human beings with desires and needs of their own, just like them.

Froodwithatowel · 27/12/2023 08:40

Yes. Selected bits of the modern woman are wanted.

She should be financially independent and an equal contributor, and be no drain on the man's resources and financial freedoms. And work. While also keeping herself looking nice, running the house, running the kids, being a good wife in providing that side of their lives. And if he wants to leave, it should not affect his finances or assets.

We see so many threads about this. So many.

NearlyMonday · 27/12/2023 08:48

I think an equally big problem is the amount of men unwilling to commit, young women often find it so hard to find a decent partner who is willing to be exclusive, and if they make it past that hurdle, so many men want the shared home and children, but won’t marry.

So they want 100% of the benefits of family life with 0% of the commitment

NearlyMonday · 27/12/2023 08:49

Froodwithatowel · 27/12/2023 08:40

Yes. Selected bits of the modern woman are wanted.

She should be financially independent and an equal contributor, and be no drain on the man's resources and financial freedoms. And work. While also keeping herself looking nice, running the house, running the kids, being a good wife in providing that side of their lives. And if he wants to leave, it should not affect his finances or assets.

We see so many threads about this. So many.

So true

Draconis · 27/12/2023 09:10

You're meant to be a partnership, a team. That doesn't always mean 50:50, it means you work together.
There's a massive imbalance when one partner is doing more work yet still contributing the same and especially, if they have less money for themselves.
The main issue seems to be one of attitude. The contribution of unpaid work isnt appreciated yet is expected, and sometimes even demanded.
There seems to be a lack of consideration and care.
I find it astounding that so many men don't care about their partners happiness, only their own. Don't stay with someone who doesn't want you to be happy.