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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Lesbian ex-swimmer changed mind on trans inclusion in sports..."we are all sisters"..

23 replies

HootyMcBooby · 08/12/2023 14:22

Lesbian swimmer Diana Nyad changes stance on trans athletes: ‘I regret any harm I caused’ (msn.com)

Talk about pulling the ladder up after you. She has "changed her mind" apparently.
Who gives a flying fuck what YOU think after you have had YOUR career?

The science is NOT "more complicated than I thought", and trans athletes are NOT "banned", they can compete in their own sex class.

Oh and by the way, no man can ever be a "sister".
Hope that helps.

MSN

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/nba/lesbian-swimmer-diana-nyad-changes-stance-on-trans-athletes-i-regret-any-harm-i-caused/ar-AA1lcoLD?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=643f7474433b4adaaac2d9155916ded3&ei=13

OP posts:
Teamsaction · 08/12/2023 14:25

This is very disappointing, I really liked the film as well.

fedupandstuck · 08/12/2023 14:28

I do wonder quite what Nyad has been reading during her "deep dive" into this issue.

Transwomen swimmers can be included in competitive swimming. In the Open category. Men need to work on being kind and inclusive of transwomen athletes who compete in any Open races.

Helleofabore · 08/12/2023 14:30

Yeah, the science really is not more complicated. What is the complicating factor is there is a movie to push and her previous stance is the one that will result in boycotting the film and abuse of her.

I can't blame her wanting to avoid the abuse mind you. But in saying that, she really has pulled the ladder up as you say Hooty.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 08/12/2023 14:54

Hmm. Finished her swimming career and abandoning all the other women forced to swim against men. 😑
And we all know that there is zero science showing that it's complicated.

HootyMcBooby · 08/12/2023 15:02

This smacks of "re-education".
Wonder who got to her?

OP posts:
Needmoresleep · 08/12/2023 15:38

There have been several articles exploring Nyad's relationship with truth and fact. Some claim it is rather loose.

So perhaps no surprise.

She also seems to like attention.

HootyMcBooby · 08/12/2023 16:42

As a lesbian I assume that she is now absolutely happy to engage in penile sex if her girlfriend happens to have a penis.
Because, you know, we're all sisters together, or some such fucking nonsense.

OP posts:
JemimaFuddle · 08/12/2023 16:47

I feel like I need a shower after reading the phrase penile sex

Villagetoraiseachild · 08/12/2023 16:58

Mind the swimming pool showers then Jemima....
Feel embarrassed for her.....

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 08/12/2023 17:11

JemimaFuddle · 08/12/2023 16:47

I feel like I need a shower after reading the phrase penile sex

Oh, come on … some of us don’t have any real choice (other than abstinence) - or should we chop the offending member off and pretend to be women?

FictionalCharacter · 08/12/2023 17:15

HootyMcBooby · 08/12/2023 15:02

This smacks of "re-education".
Wonder who got to her?

It does - that phrase “regret any harm I caused” always comes up and always sounds insincere, like a prepared hostage statement being read out. What harm do they think they caused, really?

Copernicus321 · 08/12/2023 17:58

Why is biological categories in some sports so hard to understand!

Sports are necessarily split into categories because the effect of testosterone during puberty. It's doesn't matter how low the presence of the hormone is at the time of competing because by then its "its already done its job".

The fastest woman ever is only the 6860th fastest human if you include all the biological men. As far as I'm concerned, you can have a trans-woman on a woman's chess team as I'm fairly certain that size, muscle mass, bone density, lung and heart capacity doesn't result in better chess. However, when it comes down to anything physical, it does.

Lottapianos · 08/12/2023 19:35

Nice Diana, thanks a lot 😁 this is shameful

I watched the film Nyad on Netflix recently and really enjoyed it, but I have to say she did not come across as an admirable character. Yes, her achievement was incredible but came at great cost to herself and others. I found myself wondering whether she would have been better off following Bonnie's advice to 'get a therapist'

AltitudeCheck · 08/12/2023 19:59

As far as I'm concerned, you can have a trans-woman on a woman's chess team as I'm fairly certain that size, muscle mass, bone density, lung and heart capacity doesn't result in better chess.

But in some countries the societal norms could hugely affect the opportunities to learn and practice and give a significant head start to people who grow up being treated as male. If it's perceived as a male dominated game, taught to boys by their father's, played in bars or cafes frequented mainly by men... A women's league might be needed to help 'level up' and support new players and provide role models until the less obvious inequalities are addressed.

EtiennePalmiere · 08/12/2023 20:10

Must have been the marketing team from the film who sent her to the re-education camp. I'd be curious to know what Jodie Foster thinks.

Froodwithatowel · 08/12/2023 20:39

"we're all sisters"

Well someone got a nice bit of sentimental sloppy tosh off facebook.

No love. We're not. They are men. As you well know.

Cosmosforbreakfast · 08/12/2023 21:19

Men can't be sisters, they're not and never will be women. Have immediately lost any respect I had for her.

Rightsraptor · 09/12/2023 00:17

I'm not a chess player but I understand that male and female categories are needed because the characteristics of champion chess players skew strongly to the male and women wouldn't often win when competing against men.

PorcelinaV · 09/12/2023 01:55

Looking at the original article, she was always TWAW, but suggested an open category for fairness.

catduckgoose · 09/12/2023 09:28

I think I read somewhere that there are separate chess tournaments for women and men because there are so many awful, creepy misogynist men playing chess that it puts women chess players off competing with them. Allowing men who attempt to mimic women to join women's chess leagues surely isn't going to help with this.

Copernicus321 · 09/12/2023 10:25

Too true. Now you mention it, I don't know why I suggested chess as an example as most biological male chess players are sufficiently weird to freak anybody out. Before chess, I thought competitive angling might be an example of a sport where there was no advantage thinking that all you had to do was put some bait on a hook. That was until someone pointed out that a competitor with greater upper body strength is able to cast further. Is there any competitive sport where biological gender doesn't provide an advantage?

PorcelinaV · 09/12/2023 11:03

Just a thought, but maybe there are sports/games that in theory women could be just as good at, but there are biological reasons why women would normally be less driven and obsessed over them which is needed for the top level?

rabbitwoman · 09/12/2023 11:53

it's really interesting that the conversation has slewed to chess - pool has been in the news a lot recently and then there are other activities that have high prizes such as poker and darts. these activities are easy for trans activists to target because a male biological advantage is harder to pinpoint.

but men don't have babies. so men don't have these roles and responsibilities that keep them in the home and are more able to travel and stay overnight at venues; traditionally, they don't have such a strong biological draw to nurturing babies and children, which is very consuming both psychologically and physically, so they have more mental energy and time to devote to becoming masters at their craft. any woman able to break away from these stereotypical roles will find themselves in a male dominated space, which can be intimidating, so they may stay away. to create a space which makes more allowances for women with traditional responsibilities makes it more comfortable for other women to join.

this is not just limited to these activities - how about plumbing, where you need to be super flexible to fit together jobs efficiently - you can't just reschedule around child care. how about stand up comedy?

and none of that may be relevant, it may be a completely different set of unrelated factors, but it does not change the fact that these areas are completely dominated by men. Allowing women the opportunity to enter these competitions or job roles is not enough, there is nothing stopping women training in trades, for example. But it is not enough to even the playing field. women only spaces need to be created to make it fair. for whatever reason. I don't really care why.

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