Stating biological fact is an LGBTQ+ "hate crime"

[HootyMcBooby]

Rishi Sunak still repeating transphobic ‘a woman is a woman’ statement (msn.com)

"Sunak’s disdain for trans people has run parallel to anti-trans rhetoric spreading across the county. The Home Office admitted less than 24 hours following his CPC speech that politicians are in part responsible for the rise in anti-LGBTQ+ hate crimes."
"Belgium’s deputy prime minister, Petra De Sutter, who is trans, condemned the speech as “hurtful and disappointing.“
“These words are fueling transphobia and endangering the lives of many people around the world,” she said at the time. “Trans women are women. And in no way a threat to others. Don’t join the real bullies.”

It really IS 1984 come to life.
Wrong speak, wrong think.

Biological fact (undisputable, undeniable, immutable and proven) FACTS are now a hate crime.
How can a fact be "hurtful and disappointing"? Is anyone else worried that this ideology is now reaching the top tiers of government ? De Sutter is deputy prime minister. No doubt if they are ever in the top job, it WILL be an actual crime to say a man is a man, and a woman is a woman.

At this point I would be quite happily jailed for sticking to FACTS.

They're going to need bigger jails.

Where did you get that 9.4% from?

However, most (probably nearly all) trans people don’t claim to have changed sex. They claim to have changed gender.

Yes, but

1. they can't explain what "gender" is
2. they think that entitles them to behave and be treated as if they had changed sex.

“However, most (probably nearly all) trans people don’t claim to have changed sex. They claim to have changed gender.”

Does this mean that the influential spokespeople trans people who do make the claim that they are female when they are male are not representative of trans people and should be discredited then? Because there is a growing list of males using the word ‘female’ for themselves while demanding and getting laws and policy changes to suit their political agenda.

Just to pluck another figure from memory, something like 2-3% of men are autogynephiles, so would cross dress by choice if it was wholly socially acceptable. If they all claimed they were women, they would easily outnumber lesbians.

And 90% of those who’ve had surgery might be homosexual men, but I think the number of transvestites and cross dressers now claiming they are women and demanding access to women’s spaces and lesbian spaces in particular now outnumber HSTS men.

Has the potential glaring discrepancy in your thinking occurred to you yet? Maybe you should link your statistics source and we can see what is meant by heterosexual in this case.

I would suggest if you asked a male who already denies they are male if they are heterosexual, using those words, they may not reply with a statement based on material reality. They will declare they are homosexual. Or bisexual or ‘’queer’ male people will also not fall under that category if bisexual or may deny that they are in that category if they declare they are queer.

Big hairy bollocks! Most lesbians- myself included - are very happy with biological reality.

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, Petra.

I’m beginning to feel nostalgic for the likes of Boris Johnson who entered politics merely to feather his financial nest rather than a politician who’s driven by an authoritarian impulse to force and subjugate an entire population and the nation’s laws to validate their one self serving fantasy. It’s very dystopian.

Don't forget that Labour have promised tougher sentences for this.
https://order-order.com/2023/10/16/annelise-dodds-promises-tougher-sentences-for-intentionally-mis-gendering/

😂

How can scientific fact be a crime, let alone hateful? This is nuts: blurring the lines between hard fact - something that cannot be altered and therefore can’t be judged with any moral yardstick - and behaviour/opinion, which can be.

Do we judge the fact that the earth moves around the sun or that water boils at 100 degrees, and so on? Do we apply moral judgements to these facts? No, of course not - it’d be absurd.

So it’s absurd to apply a moral judgement to the biological fact that humans cannot change sex. It simply is the case.

Whatever has happened to the right to Free Speech?

(I know, it is under massive threat in USA, Australia, NZ and even the UK + other parts of Europe. It is insanity to equate stating biological facts with hate speech)

However, most (probably nearly all) trans people don’t claim to have changed sex. They claim to have changed gender.

Really? What makes you think that most trans people don’t claim to have changed sex? I regularly see high profile trans activists and TW state that TW aren’t male or that it’s transphobic to call TW male or that TW are AHF.

If your personal sense of identity is contingent on policing how everyone else thinks and criminalising anyone who isn’t affirming the things you want to be true, then you should really ask
yourself some searching questions.

Instead people just about ‘transphobe / transphobic’ and insist anyone who isn’t aligned with their activism is a nasty bigot who should be prosecuted for ‘hate crime’.

Originally the notion of hate crime was around an aggravating factor in relation to an actual crime. So it would be considered worse that you beat someone up purely out of hatred of black people or whatever.

But in the 2020s it’s slipped away from discussing the motivations for actual crime and instead become about criminalising thoughts and opinions. Even worse, political groups (small and big p) use this logic to avoid having to engage in debate in the basis that their opponents are depraved bigots.

You also don’t seem to have read and interacted with Frood’s post as it is written.

Lesbians declaring their own boundaries have indeed been described as ‘homophobic’ and ‘hateful’. In some states in Australia, lesbians cannot meet while excluding males who declare they are lesbian. Here in the UK, lesbian events have been blocked or cancelled by venues for being female only. Plus lesbian meetings such as the launch of ‘The Lesbian Project’ was heavily protested and protesters attempted to drown out the speakers inside the building.

You don’t seem all that up to date with what is happening to Lesbians who define their boundaries as being female only, or you are actively dismissing their needs with that seemingly breezy, yet inaccurate at collective level, “You are not obligated to be attracted to them, and nor is it hate or homophobia.”

Or did you also miss Nancy Kelley’s comments as the CEO of stonewall? Or a QC in the Allison Bailey case comparing some lesbians conduct as like appartheid? Here you go, just so you can get some background.

https://unherd.com/thepost/qc-compares-lesbians-refusing-sex-with-transwomen-to-apartheid/

However, I also suggest you look at social media interactions where males declaring themselves to be lesbians abuse and threaten lesbians on line when they are rejected. And we have had threads here where lesbians have told their stories of being abused for stating that they will not have sex with a male who has declared that they are lesbian.

Whatever your motivation for dismissing what is happening, it doesn’t seem to be based in the reality of being a lesbian that the post you were answering is.

Are you denying a lesbian’s lived experience of being told that they are homophobic and a hater? Or are you agreeing that it is not hate or homophobia, but instead you are dismissing that this is happening in real life? And downplaying it possibly happening because you believe that 9.4% of trans people are, or is it just that they identify as, heterosexual. And you have read that statistic as a male person being attracted to a female person, and not looked at whether the statistic is self identifying themselves as homosexual or bisexual or even queer?

Agree with this @InefficientProcess - “criminalising thoughts and opinions”. Very 1984.

Younger people are scared to voice opinions on serious issues; they’re worried about not having the “correct thoughts” and think you have to join a side and be in or out. They see knee-jerk reactions to all issues on SM and think that this is how to “have an opinion” and that everyone on the “other side” is “hateful”. It’s very worrying.

Thanks for giving a summary of the Emperors New Clothes as its a little known story. You couldn't tell us what Cinderella is about while your at it? Lol...sorry couldn't resist.

Ha ha, exactly whatever I was thinking

Maybe some people aren’t familiar with the story and have been wondering what the Emperor’s New Clothes is/are and why it’s sometimes used to illustrate the gaslighting that has been going on? Just a thought!

And interesting thing about the Emperors New Clothes is that once a child bursts the bubble and points out the reality, everyone can relax and common sense prevails. Despite being the emperor he’s laughed at and runs away naked IIRC, presumably to put some clothes on.

But people have been pointing out the facts on this for years and years now, and it’s still being enshrined into law and people are still being bullied and losing their jobs and being accused of hate - for simply understanding reality. I do think gender ideology (as opposed to gender nonconformity, which I don’t have a problem with at all) will come to an end and be consigned to history - and hopefully people will be able to have whatever (basically decent) gender expression they like without that meaning they can claim access to the opposite sex’s rights and spaces. But it’s funny how modern society has kind of shunned reality as an important thing, in favour of “identity”, so the believers continue to insist despite all the evidence to the contrary.

The summary of the Emperor’s New Clothes mentioned upthread is slightly different to my recollection of the tale. I recall that the spin about these fine new tailored clothes (which of course, didn’t exist) was that only intelligent people could see them. So of course everyone wanted to be seen as intelligent and went along with it, saying oh what marvellous elegant clothes. Then a little boy pipes up with the truth: “But he’s not wearing any clothes!”

This reminds me of my DC piping up “that’s a man!” when the BBC were interviewing a trans-identified marathon runner, who was wearing a sports bra and rainbows and spouting “Girl Power”.

Children may well have to become the adults in the room in this stunning and brave new world.

Cross posted with you Mrs T!

It is fits though, doesn’t it, believing everyone on the planet knows a European fairytale while then seeming to actively dismiss the realities currently facing lesbians?

It really just shows the complete and utter disconnected thinking of some people. That their experience in life is the norm and they don’t mind showing their own ignorance on a board that has many posters from around the world active on it, dismissing them as easily as they seemed to be dismissing lesbian experiences.

Only 9.4% of transwomen are straight, ie. attracted to women, so for the vast majority of them you don't have the right equipment so you are getting worked up over nothing.

And at least 9.4% of statistics are completely made up.

Only 9.4% of transwomen are straight, ie. attracted to women, so for the vast majority of them you don't have the right equipment so you are getting worked up over nothing.

you do realise that calling a transwoman who is attracted to women “straight” makes you the transphobiest of transphobes?

To be perfectly honest, I no longer know what straight or heterosexual means when it’s regarding a trans person.

From the government’s website:

Sexual orientation

The 2017 LGBT survey shows that 85.2% of all transgender and non-binary people have a sexual orientation that is not heterosexual (5.4% of respondents chose not to disclose their sexual orientation). The full breakdown of sexual orientation in displayed in Table 3 below.
Table 3: Sexual orientation breakdown of transgender and non-binary people

@CorruptedCauldron To be perfectly honest, I no longer know what straight or heterosexual means when it’s regarding a trans person.

This is the problem when language gets changed. We are all confused. It's a word soup designed to baffle.

Men in comedy wigs telling us they're lesbians,what a time to be alive.