Breaking the cycle - bringing up boys who see and do the mental load

[Glassesfrompubs]

I need your advice!

How do you bring up boys to be better than our generation's men at taking on the mental load? How do we make them more capable of seeing what needs to be done and doing it? How to be encourage them to be organised?

I don't want my future daughters-in-law to ever hear the words "just make me a list" or "remind me to..."

I can't put my finger on what it was that is different about how I (and other women in their 30s and 40s) were taught, compared to our male counterparts.

So how do we consciously break the cycle with our boys? Please - give me tips and suggestions

It depends on the child's inherent temperament. Boys are not all the same, any more than girls are all the same. Largely I think people act according to their nature and inherent character; but of course children also model what they see around them and in their own family situation.

I do think that we women can get ourselves into a right state when we try to micro manage what we think our male partners should be doing; should not be doing; how we think they should think; how we want them to think.....and so on. I've realised that certain types of thing matter far more to me than to my husband, and vice versa...so trying to harangue him into being more like me is just tiring and pointless.

Sometimes I also think there are some generalised differences between males and females - and especially when you have children; there is nothing quite like the maternal instinct.

Firstly, men in the home need to model the right approach. So both parents are aware of the children's schedule, school related activities etc etc. For example, if I was unexpectedly sick tomorrow and my partner needed to do everything at home and with the kids, he would know what kit the children need, what time to drop off/pick up, what their class teachers are called, what to cook for tea etc etc.

Then, with the children themselves, teach them to be responsible for themselves around the home. So, dirty clothes go in the wash basket, they can clear the table, load the dishwasher. Teach them to cook, sew, clean. Teach them about their emotions and feelings. Ever since watching the BBC documentary "No More Boys And Girls: Can Our Kids Go Gender Free?" and hearing that from their research, the only emotion the boys could describe was "anger", I have been determined to make sure my children can describe more than that!

My husband and I both hate housework so we don't do it. Teach your sons to marry someone well matched in tolerance for mess.

Agree with @fedupandstuck - the crucial thing will be to model this as parents, and then start teaching them the skills they need. Instill responsibility from a young age. Show them how to do their laundry, and get them thinking about what they need ahead of the school week (how many shirts? Pe kit?). Get them to help with shopping and considering what the household needs. Give them age appropriate cleaning chores each week. Enforce tidying up after themselves.

It’s interesting as my male cousin grew up in a traditional environment with a SAHM and hands-off dad and yet completely shares the mental load in his own life. His MIL notices how he does things without asking the other men in her life don’t do and he’s the only DH in their circle who doesn’t need a list to know how to look after their 2DC when their DW goes away. It does make you wonder if he can do it without being taught how other men can’t.

Well I've managed it but they're all in their 30s so is wasn't a 'thing', just evolved naturally. I was also a single parent so I managed it all when they were growing up.
I just always saw things as being equal and gender never came into it. Eldest doesn't have kids but totally 50/50 on the household stuff. Middle son works very long hours but takes his shared responsibilities seriously. Youngest has always taken the lions share as he likes it that way. They then do the rest together.
We, as a family, don't see gendered roles. On Friday I both finished some knitting and installed a built in oven having evaluated the problem.

Love this!!

You have to robustly challenge the shite of every day life, every single time.

I think that's a good start, but also it's the admin which is unavoidable- remembering the car insurance is due, responding to the 11 million school emails etc. I want to teach them to notice this stuff needs doing, not just passively accept instruction 😃

Weirdly I just saw this clip and thought it was relevant, though maybe more about housework than the mental load in general
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0J2h-vo_4X/

This is a very interesting question.

I don’t think it’s all about upbringing for boys - my DH is very different to his twin (and they had the same upbringing).

DH and I do roughly 50/50… yesterday we accidentally both made a packed lunch for DS.

However BIL (DH twin) and SIL have very old fashioned gender roles… BIL has barely changed a nappy and probably wouldn’t know what to put in a lunchbox. I think a lot of it is natural laziness and seeing how much the woman will tolerate. (SIL tolerates a lot more than me). So some of it is also bringing up daughters to have the expectation of not doing everything themselves.

I agree that role modelling is probably the best way. My DS is only 2.5 but we try to take things in turns and I deliberately don’t automatically do things… I give DH a chance to respond too. E.g. DS says he needs the toilet.. I don’t make it a habit of taking him every time.

I realised my post was more about house work / childcare than the unseen mental load… but they’re part of the same continuum really..

I think teaching responsibility from a young age, as a PP said. My mum's partner is the most hands-on and capable man I know (when it comes to all the household stuff, doing stuff for his kids birthdays etc. etc. - all the traditional "wifework", as well as the traditional "man stuff" like DIY). Sadly his mum died when he was 10 so him and his siblings had to just step up. He knew what it took to smoothly run a household from a young age; not that it should take that, but I think the fact he was required to do it so young just instilled in him a level of capability I haven't seen in the vast majority of the men in my life (maybe the men in my life are a bit shit, who knows 😂).

I’m in my early 50s and had a Dad who didn’t change a single nappy throughout my / my sibling’s childhood.

My Mum took on all of the mental load and pretty much all of the housework, at least until we were teens and she went out to work, at which point Dad started doing the odd bit of washing and ironing (and burning water on the odd occasion he had to ‘cook’).

Despite that, I have always done a lot more than 50% of the housework, including the planning for lunches, getting homework done, permission slips, healthcare appointments etc etc. I probably do a bit more than some of my male friends, but all pitch in substantially at home.

I dont know how dh grew up the way he did as had a very traditional dad, but he’s a fabulous human being and we share everything. Our 3 boys grew up seeing this modelled every day and they help out all the time too.

I think it’s also important to model this for daughters too - so many women I know think they have an inherently superior ability to parent which is just bollocks. But they need to be part of the revolution 🥰.

Don't just tell them to remember to do stuff, teach them how to make sure they do. When you point out that they've (whatever) for the (whatever th) time, ask how they're going to ensure they don't do that again. Connect the task with something they already do? Move something to help with the reminder? Insert a calendar reminder? Set a repeating alarm? Invite them to explore what they could do, and talk about what you do - make that a positive, interesting conversation. It isn't just "try harder", and "try harder" doesn't actually work. Bet there are things you do to keep track of stuff, that you're not even aware of... And it's also fine if they need more or different scaffolding to help them, provided it's theirs and they look after it!

Role model it. My eldest son used to play ironing as a toddler, like his daddy. They see us both cook, pick them up, do washing. They shouldn’t have any preconceived idea at all that it’s women’s work. Growing up, you get them to fill in their excursion forms, take responsibility for their sporting fixtures so someone is available to drive them, to share in advance any requirements for equipment food etc so it’s been purchased. Basically make them responsible for their own life so they know what needs doing and never expect a girl to take it on for them.

but all pitch in substantially at home.

I think this is the heart of the matter. Everyone sees the default person working in the home as female and men as pitchers in. Optional and in a spirit of generosity.

One thing we all have to do is reject undue criticism of women. Nobody points the finger at men if children are unkempt or ill fed or if a house is dirty or if Christmas isn't happening or if kits aren't ready. The reason why women have unobtainable standards for themselves is that everyone looks to them when something goes wrong. The men involved saunter off. They didn't bother their arses in the first place, and nobody blames them for the result.

Clever 🤣

This is an interesting thread I'm wondering the same and want to do better by my kids.

I was explicitly told girls do housework AND work but men work and should not do housework. That was moddled in my home.

With my kids I make sure the boys have to do chores not just my dd. I comment on gender inequality whenever I see it. I think half the problem is not understanding there is inequality as that was the case for me and initially I never saw how badly I was treated by men.

Re mental load as the kids get older I plan to let them discover for themselves what happens if you don't do the mental admin of life. Forgot your jumper? Didn't put your clothes in the wash? Hmmm maybe take responsibility for yourself a bit more kiddo

We don’t need to teach men or boys how to DO the things. They are bog standard things, boring but necessary.
We simply need to expect them to do them.
I expect my boys to clean themselves and their environments to an ok standard, and I show them how. On occasion they need to be told in no uncertain terms that now is the time!
Now they are nearly adults they muddle along - very similarly to myself at that age 😄

My husband, who is much more houseproud than me, has weirdly taken a different approach with his daughters and son. But since we live together I had no qualms in telling him that I expected DSS to also take part in our household tasks, and so now he does.

I guess it is necessary to cultivate a sort of entitled mindset in women and girls. That way men and boys simply will need to step up, as anything else is frowned upon and not the norm in society.

I was fulltime by the time mine got out of primary. In return for me leaving their bedrooms as their sanctuaries that I did not enter, they all had to tidy their own rooms, change their beds and do their own washing. So all 3 did exactly the same, 1 boy and 2 girls. They also made their breakfasts if they wanted it and ditto made their own lunch for school or something to eat when they came back. I made them their evening meal, was on top of their admin requirements and did the cleaning of the rest of the house. So I absolutely know my male child can make a bed, use a washing maching and tumble dryer, hoover, sort clothes and get a meal together and on time for when he needs it. He's been doing it from 12. I didn't make any of them do chores as small kids as they had busy lives and often little time after school and things.