Dublin

[Ramblingnamechanger]

There is a thread on AIBU but I am surprised we are not talking about it here. There has been clearly a lot of individual and mob violence taking place. Women should be out on the streets in solidarity against male violence. Has anything been planned for 25 th November already? No racist/ nationalist signs should be there. Just about the male terrorism that is happening everywhere. Let’s name it.

I'm not claiming to be the best writer in the world but I really dont think in any of my posts I have said I think (because I dont) that was the roots of the riot.

And whoever, for whatever reason, chose to engage with violence after that is not why I am saying I would have thought women would want to acknoweldge, whilst all the clever politicos put forward their analysis of why there was rioting, that the initial instance was an act of violence by a lone man against children and a woman.

And that feminists would want to remember that.

And to revert to trite male analysis of this being about neocolonialism, is just silly.

Any more than pretending I said there should be a march which would be a strain on the police. I asked about maybe placing some candles to acknowledge the initial act of male violence.

This is a feminist forum.

So using a feminist perspective isn't instructing anyone.

Its attempting to engage in issues on the basis of feminism.

Surely it is possible to acknowledge two issues, ie the individual act of male violence and the acts of group male violence.

Obviously I was niave to think this was possible and initial posted in support of what I understood the point of OP's post was.

Are we supposed to ignore the male child who was injured during the attack in the name of reducing the incident to a straight male versus female situation?

I think you need to appreciate you seem to be missing both the bigger picture of what actually happened and the nuance of the situation. Those of us living in the city have tried to explain this repeatedly, so at this point it's quite insulting that you are so quick to dismiss our explanations.

We are perfectly adept feminists capable of rising up when required, and have plenty to be shouting about without shoehorning this into a MVAWG issue.

It's not 'shoehorning' to refer to male violence when it was a man who did the stabbing, and overwhelmingly men who did the rioting, looting, burning etc.
There are other aspects to the events as well, but to highlight male violence in a discussion that has the word 'feminism' in the title isn't exactly 'shoehorning', is it?
And that's a comment from a Dubliner in Dublin, so I know what's going on, I'm not pontificating from abroad or anything..

There are complicating factors too. Any march or vigil risks attracting opportunists from the far right. Maybe it should be left til Christmas or 8th March.

I thought I’d add this article I found today discussing events in Dublin and Irish politics on the issue of immigration in general.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/27/irelands-new-elite-deludes-itself-with-platitudes-about-mig/

Twitter is saying some worrying stuff about children injured in this awful attack and a family being threatened by the police to keep quiet? Rumours that the attacker has been known to be erratic but his personal connections protected him.

i hope the rumours are silly and disappear. I fear they are not and something very worrying had happened.

Why spread those rumours further? There were all sorts of rumours that night that people claimed which merely helped stoke the violence. What's the point in you reposting them here?

This link gives the full details of how the attacker was in Ireland despite having 2 deportation orders made against him. The system needs an overhaul to make it more effective but also to be fair to the applicant.
AFAIK the rumours associating him with any politician are incorrect. There is no evidence to support it.

https://twitter.com/griptmedia/status/1729908215297523858?t=SUwp7Nb7hXIW7Z3HtztY3A&s=19

The little girl is reported to be gravely unwell, which is incredibly sad. I know there was a WhatsApp screenshot doing the rounds, purported to be from a family member.
However, it could have been from anyone, with an agenda of their own.
If it turns out to be accurate I am sure the truth will emerge in time.
Either way, I find it very sad that the victims of the attack have almost become an afterthought with the majority of the focus on the riots. Parents returning to the school with their children on Monday report that there was no political leaders or Gardai to give reassurance,which I found very surprising.

Why ask? Because if any of what gript media says is true it’s a matter of international interest with potential to wreak havoc beyond that already done to three families and I’m worried about that as I have family links there. I don’t agree that asking a question on this thread is provocation, the mainstream media aren’t reporting anything which is causing rumours in itself

It is shocking that the victims appear to be forgotten, especially in an attack on little kids. I worry the politicians have not got a handle on what is happening beyond their party bubble. It’s unnerving.

Gript have now deleted the above link so it doesn't seem to be accurate.
https://twitter.com/griptmedia/status/1730183833687855583?t=vPGiXnZt7fX86AG87r-Pvg&s=19

I'd imagine what the victims and their families need at this point is privacy, for their names not to get into the public domain, and not to have to worry about journalists turning up at their homes. It's perfectly appropriate for the media to focus on the bigger picture, and leave innocent individuals alone.

Gript are not accurate. They peddle conspiracy theories and have questionable journalism practices.

People who push forward the narrative that the system needs an “overhaul” mean that they only want Irish people or at least white people in Ireland.

Many human rights organisations lobby for a fairer system for refugees which is based around opening up more legal routes of travel from camps in the Lebanon for example so people aren’t forced into travelling illegally before claiming asylum.

For the rioters and the people behind them they do not come from a place of wanting to find a fairer system of refugees- it comes from a place of racism.

I don’t agree that the stabbing victims have been forgotten.

At the risk of being called a bigot, I think the rioters had a point. Immigration in Ireland is out of control, and the infrastructure is creaking. However, Varadkhar and co (who spoke of a child Israeli hostage as being 'lost and found') are completely out of touch with what the majority of people feel. Immigration is not a good if it lowers wages for local people and makes life more difficult for everyone.

Article in The Critic about the Dublin riot:

https://thecritic.co.uk/tensions-in-ireland-were-bound-to-boil-over/

'The rioters had a point' if the point was that the Luas tram was such an awful shade of grey it deserved to be burnt, and that bus wasn't on my route anyway so let's torch it too, and hey, why am I still wearing last year's trainers when I could loot the latest models for free. How any of that relates to the original violent attack is unclear.
The article in The Critic also lumps a lot of things together in an unclear way - for instance it accuses the Irish 'ruling class' of displaying their anti-populism by, for instance, standing with the Palestinians - hardly an unpopulist stance, when tens of thousands of people are regularly marching in support of the Palestinians, and criticises government agencies for advocating being 'respectful of women' - wow, there's an elitist anti-populist idea. Not.
Naming non-Irish men who have attacked or killed women is used as an argument against 'uncontrolled' immigration. No-one lists the Irish men who have attacked or killed women. That has no traction. The nationality of the attacker is featured, not the sex of the attacker. Even on a discussion board called 'Feminism: Sex & gender discussions', foregrounding the sex of the attacker, and of the majority of the rioters, has been criticised.
Maybe I should change my username to 'Spellingnut': the writer of The Critic article couldn't even be bothered to cut and paste the correct spelling of the media commission, it's Coimisiún na Meán.

And for a PP - our Taoiseach's name doesn't have a H in it.

This is a weird thread. There seems to be a concerted effort to shut down discussion of the fact that a ne'er do well Muslim immigrant from Algeria stabbed children and women. There are references to rumours, far right, it's complicated, twitter and conspiracy theories which seem like an effort deflect people's attention away from the stabbing and on to the riots. Don't look there, look here. It reminds me of Rochdale and Cologne.

Very weird, it's almost as though we're prepared to wait until the accused has been charged and we find out a little about his mental health before we start making assumptions. He's only just regained consciousness, having been in a coma since concerned citizens kicked him in the head.

I've had experience of schizophrenics (non-Muslim) getting very worked up and using knives, I remember the knee-jerk anti-Irish attitudes in GB in the early 70s after the start of the Troubles. I'm prepared to let the legal system do its job without ranting online about a situation where none of us know the details. And to hope that the Muslim Sisters of Eire soon feel safe to go back to doing their very good work in O'Connell Street on Fridays.

Recent polls show that the majority of Irish people believe that our immigration system needs an overhaul. Polls also say that the majority of Irish people believe immigration has culturally enriched Ireland and that the majority of Irish people are opposed to protests outside hotels accommodating asylum seekers.
This indicates that the concerns people have are not based on racism but on the current system as it exists.
To dismiss all such people as racist is similar to dismissing people who feel, for example, with GC views as transphobic. It is a sweeping generalisation and is contributing to a polarised society.
Of course, there are people who are racist. But I think most Irish people have empathy towards people who simply want a better life for themselves and their children.,no different to many generations of Irish who were economic migrants themselves.

Not so sure about McGuirk though, since it was his website that researched and named a totally different Algerian and tried to imply that he was involved in the attack, so that the already overworked police now have to protect that innocent man from the mob Gript was trying to rouse up.

I don't think McGuirk named anyone.
I think another account on X posted a photo and the name of the man in the Gript article which resulted in the man requiring protection.
I didn't, personally, find the Gript article to be inflammatory, I found it to be more of a critique of the asylum process which dragged on for 10 years.
But I suppose it would depend on your perspective when you read it.

I agree with you. It is a smoke screen to hide what many do not want seen. That immigration has a downside and that many people suffer from it - but not 'people like us' who are not racists or bigots (I agree you may not agree with this sentiment, and I don't live in Ireland) and the people who protest, or worry, are. The stabbing is the thing. Apparently the man is unconscious because by-standers kicked him in the head - presumably because they don't agree that stabbing children is ok.

Not surprised concerned citizens kicked him in the head. What would you do if someone was stabbing children in the street? Bearing in mind you are not a member of the Guarda?