M&S loos

[spuddel]

Just been into a food store in Scotland, about five mixed sex loos with the Male/Female drawing and one Male only loo. I said to an assistant that it seemed rather odd and unequal that women had no choice but to use the mixed sex loos yet men had one all to themselves. She said she'd mention it to the manager and hadn't noticed

That's shocking.

Was there definitely not a women's toilet somewhere else? I spent ages feeling like this about my local theatre until they told me they'd put the women's toilets in a different location to the men's and mixed sex.

M & S were captured many years ago by the men requiring access to women undressing lobby. They're a lost cause in terms of respecting women's rights to privacy, safety & dignity from unknown men.

For most of my life there were 4 things your could rely on M&S for:

1. Friendly middle-aged ladies who worked there (often part-time) and were practical/helpful - especially in the changing rooms

2. Clothing that was pretty well made and would last longer than other high street chains and suited a range of tastes/ages

3. Great food, in the supermarket and the café

4. Clean, pleasant, plentiful ladies changing rooms and loos

I don’t experience any of those things from M&S nowadays, and haven’t since about 2016-2017. I no longer give M&S my money - if they don’t care about women then I no longer care about helping them stay in business.

They were one of the few GB high street chains that did business in N Ireland during The Troubles so they were seen very favourably by N Irish people, middle-class and older women in particular. I don’t know anyone who shops there now but these women would go back in a heartbeat if M&S reversed most of their 'youth-chasing' decisions.

Definitely no women's toilets. In fact I was surprised there were five male/female cubicles at all in a food store the size it was plus one disabled and one male only.

Presumably the male one was a urinal, rather than them having six toilets all the same, with one being designated male.

It’s not great, even so.

Nice for men to have the widest possible choice, isn't it?

1. Still a major employer of part-time staff, and a predominantly female staff. Though update yourself in terms of demographics, most women work now, many women are now the main earners in their families. It's not just middle-aged women earning 'pin money'.
2. Their clothing sales are back in profit again. 1 in 3 bras are still purchased there.
3. Their food sales are been profitable for the last few years and remain so,
4. Complain about the latter.

In not giving them your money, you are depriving a major UK employer of women who have kept a high street presence and survived. Women are shopping there again. It's taken 10 years of reviewing their clothing but it's worked.

Is that legal?

In not giving them your money, you are depriving a major UK employer of women who have kept a high street presence and survived.

There is no obligation on anyone to support a retail outlet pushing products or ideology they dislike or consider harmful. If they do not retain to the customers to remain ‘a major UK employer of women’ then that is on them not on us. Certainly I am not going encourage my teenage daughter to shop somewhere that places her at risk. She and I will shop where we want and as retail is generally a large employer of women we will still be supporting employers of women and ones which actually respect women’s safety, privacy and dignity.

It is also getting easier to avoid M&S as they have closed over a hundred stores on the high street.

I was a great supporter of M & S as an old British "legacy" business so was quite bemused when they issues such a "fuck you" to their women customers wanting to have bra fittings etc without men being present in the next door changing room. It was a good example of how companies can expose their inner misogyny when certain men demand unhindered access to women when we're vulnerable.
I no longer support such businesses and won't be guilt tripped into returning. Fortunately there are plenty of alternatives nowadays.

Definitely no women's toilets. In fact I was surprised there were five male/female cubicles at all in a food store the size it was plus one disabled and one male only.

Given that in many such places there would just be one or two unsexed cubicles, if they're proper self contained cubicles I'd probably not be too concerned about this particular instance. If the male only one is a urinal hopefully it'll get used by men who can't aim accurately into a loo.

In places where there's inadequate provision and queues it'd be more of an issue.

I was quite impressed by the toilets in Black Sheep coffee in Manchester. Three totally self contained cubicles with hand basin inside One labelled female only, one labelled male only and one labelled male/female. There was also a radar key disabled toilet on the ground floor.

That's the modern way. Soon women will have nothing of their own.
We've gone back to the 10th century 😔

Excellent points @UtopiaPlanitia and @SaffronSpice

don’t know anyone who shops there now but these women would go back in a heartbeat if M&S reversed most of their 'youth-chasing' decisions.

They took a wrong turn because 'youths' certainly don't shop there. Clothes are expensive and not to most young people's tastes, and food is far too pricey for those on a student budget. My nearest M&S is mostly full of middle age and up.

Okay

1. You made this 'pin money' comment up yourself and I would suggest it is entirely expressive of your thoughts and not what I wrote - to my mind these women were working part-time and had to fit work in around family and caring responsibilities and I dislike your implication that I would think less of anyone for doing that. I admire women who fit work in around family and caring responsibilities. And these women were working at a time when society didn’t universally think that older women should be working outside the home, so I always appreciated M&S for seeing the value and experience that older women could bring to a business.

2. The quality of their clothing is not what it used to be - I have M&S clothing that I can compare from previous years that holds up better than the recent stuff.

3. I gave up buying their food because they stopped selling things I bought and didn’t stock replacements that appealed to me.

4. I have complained about the latter, and both in store and after contacting headquarters they gave me a 'sorry not sorry' response.

Go and lecture someone else about how to spend their money. I spend mine where I feel that I’m receiving good service, where the business has taken safety of customers seriously, and where they stock/produce good quality products; M&S (and other businesses) are not a charity.

I haven't set foot in M&S since 2017.

I haven't shopped in M&S since the 1980s. Our nearest city was full of clothing factories at that time,which supplied M&S. Then their buyers started getting stuff made cheaper abroad ( and poor quality),the factories closed and the mainly female workforce lost their jobs.

In the summer,I took my elderly mum bra shopping. She's had a mastectomy and struggles to find comfortable bras. To hear her tell me that she darent go in the fitting rooms of M&S and Primark "because you don't know who's in there,they let men in there these days",really made me sad and angry. So it'll be a cold day in hell before I buy from M&S ever again.