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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Judith Butler explains gender!

69 replies

ArthurbellaScott · 19/11/2023 15:03

At last, gang! It's the answers we've all been asking for!

<sits down with large cup of tea>

Berkeley professor explains gender theory | Judith Butler

Sex, gender, and the debate over identity explained by Berkeley professor Judith Butler.Subscribe to Big Think on YouTube ► https://www.youtube.com/channel/U...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD9IOllUR4k

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ArthurbellaScott · 19/11/2023 15:05

Since when did her pronouns become 'they'? Is that recent?

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ArthurbellaScott · 19/11/2023 15:07

Strawman tally: II (4.35)

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Terfosaurus · 19/11/2023 15:08

Ooo thanks. I'll have to get out of my warm bed and go and put it on on the telly. I hate watching things on my phone.

nonmerci99 · 19/11/2023 15:15

She has some interesting ideas in Gender Trouble, but most of them are plagiarised from better thinkers. She’s really gone off the deep end in the past decade or so with her “theory”.

BlessedKali · 19/11/2023 15:15

ArthurbellaScott · 19/11/2023 15:05

Since when did her pronouns become 'they'? Is that recent?

'be the change you wish to see'

KatBurglar · 19/11/2023 15:18

I don't think I have enough gin in the house to face that gibberish.

PurpleSparkledPixie · 19/11/2023 15:24

Can anyone break it down for me? I'm not very good on audio (plus household of twaw).

I did get as far as they believe sex and gender are very different (pre 3 mins) so does this mean they don't follow the twaw line of thought?

WickedSerious · 19/11/2023 15:40

KatBurglar · 19/11/2023 15:18

I don't think I have enough gin in the house to face that gibberish.

Same here and I have twenty nine bottles of it.

JayAlfredPrufrock · 19/11/2023 15:40

Anyone who describes themselves as distinguished is a 👎 from me.

AutumnCrow · 19/11/2023 15:43

I'm writing an academic article at the minute for my own amusement about my desire that the gender woo does not infiltrate my academic subject because of its anti-intellectual nature.

Oh god do I now need to watch this crap? Do I? Can someone else take one for the team? I'm begging here ...

AutumnCrow · 19/11/2023 15:44

JayAlfredPrufrock · 19/11/2023 15:40

Anyone who describes themselves as distinguished is a 👎 from me.

Oooh, embarrassed for her.

HarpieDuJour · 19/11/2023 15:50

I've always had the impression from her writing that Butler sees clarity as a sin, and thinks that avoiding it demonstrated wisdom. I only watched a few minutes, and to be fair it was clearer than some of her writing, but it was delivered in the style of someone who was helpfully giving us the truth so that we don't have to bother doing our own thinking.

And yes, describing herself as distinguished made me wince.

ArthurbellaScott · 19/11/2023 16:05

AutumnCrow · 19/11/2023 15:44

Oooh, embarrassed for her.

Is that not a job title? Surely?!

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ArthurbellaScott · 19/11/2023 16:06

PurpleSparkledPixie · 19/11/2023 15:24

Can anyone break it down for me? I'm not very good on audio (plus household of twaw).

I did get as far as they believe sex and gender are very different (pre 3 mins) so does this mean they don't follow the twaw line of thought?

Sorry I got bored halfway through and wandered off to hoover the sitting room. I'll try again in a bit.

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ArthurbellaScott · 19/11/2023 16:08

ArthurbellaScott · 19/11/2023 16:05

Is that not a job title? Surely?!

Yeah, it's an American thing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distinguished_professor

Distinguished professor - Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distinguished_professor

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ArthurbellaScott · 19/11/2023 16:09

See.also: Very Clever Professor and Important Author.

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JayAlfredPrufrock · 19/11/2023 16:11

Untidy waster?

That’s me

Terfosaurus · 19/11/2023 16:17

Either my you tube cut off or that was a short video. Where she explained precisely nothing. In fact, the impression I got was that Judith was saying gender is expectations placed on us based on our sex. But that we don't have to conform.

So she thinks the same as us then.

JayAlfredPrufrock · 19/11/2023 16:22

Short bit then ads then into the deep dive.

Thingybob · 19/11/2023 16:26

Well that's 15 minutes of my life I'll never get back. It was Judith Butler explaining absolutely nothing.

ValerieDoonican · 19/11/2023 16:26

Hmm yeah. Gender not the same as sex, fine. Then a whole lot of hyping up non-gender-conforming self expression as "changing the world" "the meaning of freedom" etc. Also apparently conflating gender with sexuality, ie , the usual piggy-backing on LGB issues.

Not exactly startling, and definitely undistinguished 😅

AutumnCrow · 19/11/2023 16:40

ValerieDoonican · 19/11/2023 16:26

Hmm yeah. Gender not the same as sex, fine. Then a whole lot of hyping up non-gender-conforming self expression as "changing the world" "the meaning of freedom" etc. Also apparently conflating gender with sexuality, ie , the usual piggy-backing on LGB issues.

Not exactly startling, and definitely undistinguished 😅

She's not exactly an ethnographer's ethnographer, is she?

donquixotedelamancha · 19/11/2023 17:36

nonmerci99 · 19/11/2023 15:15

She has some interesting ideas in Gender Trouble, but most of them are plagiarised from better thinkers. She’s really gone off the deep end in the past decade or so with her “theory”.

It's not a theory. A theory requires supporting evidence.

It's not even a hypothesis because nothing she says is precise enough to be falsifiable and it can't be used to make predictions.

She just has opinions.

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 19/11/2023 17:46

ArthurbellaScott · 19/11/2023 15:05

Since when did her pronouns become 'they'? Is that recent?

At least two years.

Judith Butler, in September 2021.

I still rather think that pronouns come to me from others, which I find interesting, since I receive an array of them – so I am always somewhat surprised and impressed when people decide their own pronouns or even when they ask me what pronouns I prefer. I don’t have an easy answer, though I am enjoying the world of “they”. When I wrote Gender Trouble, there was no category for “nonbinary” – but now I don’t see how I cannot be in that category.

I will note here that GC adult women also look at gender identity and think, 'I don’t see how I cannot be in that category' But then they travel further with that thought, and realise that the category of non-binary describes everyone, because they recognise that no-one is a two-dimensional cut-out of sex-role stereotypes. Otherwise known as realising that, 'I'm non-binary unique and so is everyone else.'

Judith Butler: ‘We need to rethink the category of woman’ | Life and style | The Guardian

Judith Butler: ‘We need to rethink the category of woman’

The author of the ground-breaking book Gender Trouble says we should not be surprised when the category of women expands to include trans women

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/sep/07/judith-butler-interview-gender

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 19/11/2023 17:48

WickedSerious · 19/11/2023 15:40

Same here and I have twenty nine bottles of it.

Same here and we've got a couple of litres in the garage.