Non Binary Gym Changing Rooms

[NevermindNelson]

I’ve just had an email from a gym I use explaining that their changing rooms are going to become gender neutral. I don’t even know where to start to reply. The email states that they’re proud to do this.

I want to reply with the reasons that I’m cancelling my membership, but all I’ve got so far is, “What, seriously?”

Maybe I should just send this - Just under 90 per cent of complaints regarding changing room sexual assaults, voyeurism and harassment are about incidents in unisex facilities. Because they have made the changing rooms unisex, haven’t they?

Edited to correct the term as ‘gender neutral’

But it's only flashing, as in a crime, if the flasher intends to cause alarm. So there's endless scope for these wretches to pretend the towel slipped/she was making it up/she shouldn't have been looking.

There's also the simple fact that women don't (generally) want to be looked at by men in those circumstances.

LOL.

So you are ok in your council changing room, that means the rest of the world has to be ok with whatever changing and showering facilities are provided?

Are you being deliberately dim or deliberately goady? 🤔

Here you are Nn9011. Some factual data for you to educate yourself with:

https://fairplayforwomen.com/unisex-changing-rooms-put-women-in-danger/

Deliberately goady, I'd say.

This is about men and women sharing spaces where vulnerability is an issue. Why are you making it a trans issue?

No I'm being reasonable. Gender neutral changing rooms exist everywhere and for some reason anti-trans nonsense has created a fear of them. Other countries have mixed areas with no issues either. For example, if you go camping in France - most campsite toilets/showers are gender neutral. Bodies are bodies and it's not a big deal.
You're far more likely to be assaulted in your own home by someone you know than by a stranger in a changing room. Not saying it's never happened but the risk is so so low. It's a moral panic creates by the media and right wing politicians and people need to see how they're worrying about something that has existed for decades.

Quick question. Are YOU the only person that has linked the risk to women from men as being 'anti-trans'? Thereby assuming that trans people are more likely to be a risk to women than men?

As that would in itself be 'anti-trans'.

You’re the first person on this thread to mention trans people, the rest of us were discussing women’s rights and needs. I’m concerned about men in a women’s changing room, that’s it.

Good luck OP. Mumsnet is great with help to write responses to things like this.

It will be interesting to see what reply you get.

Assuming they also mean that women can go into the men’s to get changed, I’m surprised that men are happy to get undressed in front of women tbh.

So you'd presumably be quite happy if your year 7 daughter was showering with the year 11 boys yes? I mean they're only bodies, she's at far greater risk of being assaulted in your house yes?

I'm a neurodermitis sufferer. I'd never tolerate a pool I can't shower at because I need to get the chlorine off or I'll itch all day. When I lived in Holland all pools had poolside showers only and it's fucking discriminatory - women's swimsuits cover a lot more skin than a man's itsy-bitsy speedo, so I need to take it off.

My point is that these fears weren't a thing until recently when transphobia became a pushed narrative by the media. Gender neutral bathrooms, changing rooms etc have existed for decades without issues and the fear mongering that is being pushed comes from the narratives that men in changing rooms is dangerous when the statistics say otherwise. And that that narrative comes from those that are transphobic and pushing the fear onto others who may not even see it.
It's the men we know that are most dangerous, not strangers in a changing room. As I say, I'm not ignorant that things don't happen but they are so so rare that there really isn't the need to be this afraid.

Which gym? Is this real? I haven't come across this yet.

It doesn’t have a sauna. I doubt there’s enough space to add another sink to be honest.

‘They do it in other countries’ is not an argument. What you would need to do is show the data which demonstrates there are no higher rates of assault in mixed sex as opposed to single sex facilities in those countries. We have that data for this country, and it shows higher rates of assault.

Not that that will bother. As you make it clear that you consider a level of increased numbers of women being assaulted to be acceptable for what you perceive as a ‘greater good’. And that is this issue on which you and feminists can never agree. ( by definition, if you think this increased assault level is ok, you are not a feminist).

@Nn9011

Oh so you're one of the cool girls who doesn't care about women's dignity and safety and think that women's rights are transphobic?

As OP says you are the first person on this thread to mention trans people.

This is about protecting women from males.

@Nn9011 gender neutral toilets do not include urinals.
Gender neutral showers do not include getting changed in front of people you’ve never met that are the opposite sex.

Very different.

Plus, as a French person, I can tell you that no one ever expect to get naked in front of the opposite sex.

Don’t make parallel that don’t exist.

And I have been in plenty of French campsites as I'm a motor- homer, I don't recall mixed sex facilities in any of them.

You mean France who lowered the age of consent to 14 years old and only changed it recently because a child of 11 or 12 was questioned as to whether they ‘wanted’ the sex the 33 year old man forced on them in the park. The country that wouldn’t listen to the 14 year old ‘lovers’ of the men who are deemed great French intellectuals of the modern era who have stated they were allowed to be abused as it really was abuse?

The country where women at universities across the country have recently complained have appalling safety records for women and treat those who have been raped even worse than appalling?

Yeah, I wouldn’t be using France as a beacon of how countries should deal with ensuring women and girls have their saftety needs are met.

Probably best I don’t mention the gym here, I want all of the facts first.

Yes, it’s real, I got an email from them yesterday evening - this is copied from the email - “we will be making our changing rooms into gender neutral spaces.”

And I say that the French track record for dealing with women’s safety is about on par as the UK’s so I don’t hold UK up as a beacon either. In fact, is there any country that is a beacon for working hardest for women’s and girl’s safety ?

Definitely not a pick me, just someone with common sense. As I've said, the reason why I mentioned anti-trans is because wether people want to admit it or not that's where these fears come from. The media/right wing politicians have been using transphobia to push a narrative that men are using changing rooms and bathrooms to attack women and it's just not true. Yes there have been incidents I'm sure but the percentage is so low and if OP is truly worried about women's safety there are many other areas where women are truly at risk that she could be campaigning against.
Women are being controlled by a narrative that they are in danger all the time and it's important we challenge that when it isn't true. Gender neutral changing rooms have existed for decades without people having issues and you need to question why now is it a problem supposedly.

Unfortunately I agree with you @Helleofabore .
France is appalling re protecting women, sexual assault, rape etc….

We all live in the world you know.

We all know that in the UK and most other countries we have visited that there are male changing rooms and female changing rooms.

I can't even think of a time I have got changed ... so to be clear, stripped naked ... in front of men in a changing room in any country at all.

I can imagine some Scandinavian countries might do so, possibly Germany, but I haven't actually experienced it even while camping.

Gender neutral changing rooms have existed for decades without people having issues and you need to question why now is it a problem supposedly.

Please explain how women from certain religions are supposed to use mixed sex changing rooms.