Non Binary Gym Changing Rooms

[NevermindNelson]

I’ve just had an email from a gym I use explaining that their changing rooms are going to become gender neutral. I don’t even know where to start to reply. The email states that they’re proud to do this.

I want to reply with the reasons that I’m cancelling my membership, but all I’ve got so far is, “What, seriously?”

Maybe I should just send this - Just under 90 per cent of complaints regarding changing room sexual assaults, voyeurism and harassment are about incidents in unisex facilities. Because they have made the changing rooms unisex, haven’t they?

Edited to correct the term as ‘gender neutral’

Transmen shouldn't be allowed in men's changing rooms either by the same token. Single sex means single sex for both sexes.
Whilst there may not be the safety aspect single sex facilities are there to preserve privacy and dignity as well. My young teenager would hate to have women/girls in his changing room

Transmen shouldn't be allowed in men's changing rooms either by the same token.

Yes, many men would prefer that. And it's not only by the same token - also transmen are still at similar safety risks to other women if they are accommodated among men.

Though the most obvious example of the risks to transmen from gender-based accommodation is not changing rooms it's prisons. Transmen are not housed in men's prisons, for their own safety. According to Rhona Hotchkiss (retired Scottish prison governor) it was tried once and lasted 2 weeks before the prisoner was back in the women's prison, and not since.

The important difference is sex, not gender identity. People who are gender non-conforming might need separate accommodation but even then you can't mix male and female, it needs to be individual.

My gym has just changed one of their training rooms into a ‘woman only space’.

I got all excited for about 30 seconds, but being the ultimate cynic… yes I asked, and yes they have 🙄.

Women, non binary and ‘other’, my arse.

I’ve had a reply. The original email stated “During this period, we will be making our changing rooms into gender neutral spaces,” but ‘period’ seems to mean some selected classes.

From the email,
“Whilst our changing rooms will be gender neutral, those who identify as male will be expected to use what is usually the male changing rooms, and those who identify as female will be expected to use what is usually the female changing rooms. Those who do not identify as either male or female, will be welcome to use their preferred changing room. In case you would like to use a private changing space, we have one available in the reception area.“

So, men in the women’s changing room.

What has fought this about? Why o oh for a selected period?

Is this a case of a trans woman stating they want access to the womens changing room during their yoga class and the gym
Accommodating them?

This is such bullshit. I agree it's probably because of one person.

Id probably go back with something along the lines of:

'Many thanks for your reply.

I am still a little confused.

Female spaces are for females, not people who identify as females. So are you saying that for these classes or time periods males can 'identify' as females and use those spaces?

If this is the case, how are you going to manage this, and to mitigate against exposure and exhibitionism, or sexual assault, or indeed rape? It is well known that the reason we split changing rooms by sex is for this very reason.

Please can you provide by return:
The Risk Assessments and Equality Impact Assessments for these new mixed sex spaces.
The times and classes that are now mixed sex spaces.
Your documentation that you have advised your insurers that you have informed them of, and they have agreed to increase the policy for the protection of the females you are now exposing to males in states of vulnerability.

I am very disappointed that you have made a decision to change your policy on this, without any customer engagement or feedback, and request the above, so that I can be assured of my own safety when in your establishment.

Kindest Regards'

How pathetic is that response!!
So are they going to keep changing signs according to their time table? What if you arrive/leave for a different class during that time - will someone monitor who's in and chivvy them out if inappropriate?
Sounds like an excellent strategy to blur all boundaries so the (no doubt very) small minority get their way. 😡

I’ve checked one of the classes mentioned in the email - there is nothing to suggest a difference from any other class. So I’m out, I have to choose classes based on lots of variables (work, health, logistics) and I just can’t add another one, especially not a hidden one.

Thank you for taking the time to write that. Mine might end slightly differently because I just don’t want to go back. As @notsorighteousthesedays says, how are they going to manage this before and after classes?

Why can't the trans use the cubicle in reception?

Where’s the fun in that?

I know you want to leave, but by telling them you will, any leverage you may have will disappear. Is it possible to wait for their reply, before you tell them that in that case you're leaving? Because they may just choose to ignore those questions otherwise, and say goodbye, go well.

You could also ask them to clarify that they are expecting teenage girls to disrobe in front of adult males.

I'm fuming on your behalf, OP. And I would dearly love to see their attempt to answer those questions, which they might not bother with if they know you're out.

I would also send the reply to the press. I don't know how it works, but if you send them anonymously, maybe you can keep your name out of it, whilst naming the gym.

What a shower.

You don't have to go back.

You can do what you want.

I'm just saying this is the approach I'd take. Make them do some work to try and explain it.

You can still never go back.

@AlisonDonut I got you and anything I write is going to use yours as a framework.

@Datun I was just wrestling with those thoughts myself. You’re right, once I’ve gone then they don’t even owe me an email response.

I’m going to ask the questions above and see what they come back with.

Sounds as though a trans identifying male has joined and asked for the right to change in the women’s changing room. Why else would they email now and talk about ‘some classes’.

All the women not wanting to share space with this man must budge up and queue for the one private space at reception. Same old, same old.

Email has gone, will let you all know if anything comes back.

Also, does the private space in reception have a shower and toilet?

Or is it just a changing cubicle? In which case would women have to use the showers and toilet in the former women"s, now mixed sex, area?

What in the actual fuck, you obviously have an AGP who had thrown his crappy little toys out the pram 🤬 I would go down there and speak to the manager

It should be noted the report that found mixed sex changing rooms were 18 times more dangerous for women (9x as many complaints from half the number of changing rooms) was referring to changing rooms where there were lots of individual cubicles.

I was recently talking to a friend about swimming lessons when we were in school. She said she played sick when they had them as the boys would peer under the bottom or stand on the benches in the cubicles and peer over the top at girls getting changed. And they didn’t have phones in those days.

But it is not just about safety, privacy and dignity are also ignored.

This is absurd.

So, now it is selected times not just ‘one class’? I’d be asking whether those times were going to be clearly signposted on the doors and inside with a very large sign.

And are these times subject to change? How will any changes be notified? What is the notification period to other users?

So far this gym has been very poor at clear communication. How many people will have no fucking idea about what has happened and will continue to believe that the previous policy is in place? Many users I suspect be emails have a habit of going into junk mail. So is there adequate signage being put up everywhere?

This is a mess. They are attempting to do a shonky and very poorly executed version of ‘inclusion’ that is not safe for female people.

OP do the showers have doors? Or Curtains?

I am guessing the weaselly worded email giving ‘clarification’ is because others are also expressing their concern at the prospect of mixed sex changing.

“During this period, we will be making our changing rooms into gender neutral spaces,”

NevermindNelson did the original email state when "this period" is? I mean did they say "Tuesdays 4pm to 7pm our changing rooms will be gender neutral spaces” ?

Or "During Wednesday step aerobics classes our changing rooms will be gender neutral spaces,” and expect you to cross check with a timetable?

Or not explain when "this period" is at all?

Of course, it is absurd and unacceptable in any case. And leaves way too much opportunity for women not to realise their changing room has been designated mixed-sex.

I'm just wondering whether they defined this magical time period at all?