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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Female prisoner told that wanting female-only prisons is transphobic

42 replies

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 12/11/2023 11:32

Tweet from Dr Kate Coleman, founder of Keep Prisons Single Sex

Yesterday I visited a woman in prison.
She had expressed her support for the Raab policy, specifically that "people with penises" should be excluded from the female estate.
She was called into a meeting & given an "informal warning" that there were concerns that she was "transphobic". She was warned that there could be further action taken against her if she continued to express these views. Views that align with current ministerial thinking.
We will be pursuing this with MoJ Gov UK & with Alex Chalk Chelt's office.

twitter.com/NoXYinXXprisons/status/1723639144285393005

Female prisoner told that wanting female-only prisons is transphobic
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ArthurbellaScott · 12/11/2023 18:54

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 12/11/2023 17:36

However, when the MoJ was in, apparently giving male rapists access to imprisoned women only got the department as high as fifth on the list.

What do you have to do to get first place?

The Stonewall Top 100 is the charity’s annual ranking of LGBT-inclusive workplaces. This year's list is headed by the Newcastle City Council, followed by housing association Gentoo Group and Cheshire Fire and Rescue Service. The MoJ takes fifth position, just behind law firm Pinsent Masons.

Handing out cigars?

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 12/11/2023 19:54

CaramacFiend · 12/11/2023 18:04

I thought GC beliefs were now a protected characteristic?

Theoretically, they should be, but accessing those rights from within prison is another matter.

The following is a copy of an article by Dr Kate Coleman, Director of Keep Prisons Single Sex.

article

Over the summer, I had lunch with a female former offender, who had recently been released from prison. During her sentence, she had moved around the female estate and had been housed in several different women’s prisons. One of the things we talked about was her experience of being held with male prisoners who identify as transgender. For those who don’t know, male prisoners have been held in women’s prisons in England and Wales since at least the early 1980s.

Although the criteria that permit this have changed over the years, the common factor permitting this is that these male prisoners identify as women. Another common factor is that the legitimate needs of women in prison to single-sex spaces for what should be obvious reasons of privacy, dignity and safety have been repeatedly and consistently minimised and ignored. I wanted to ask her what it was like being a woman held in prisons that are mixed-sex.

I’ve been ‘doing’ prisons for a while now and although much of what she told me was not a surprise, it was still shocking and upsetting. She told me about the sexual assaults she had both experienced and witnessed. She reported that sexually aggressive and physically threatening behaviour is run-of-the-mill and simply to be expected.

She said that all bar one of the male prisoners she had encountered, who were so much bigger and stronger than she, had been convicted of sexual offences. She told me that almost all retained their male genitalia: she knew that they did because they often liked to show them off, either by wearing tight clothing or by moving the shower curtain to one side when showering.

I knew this already, but it’s different hearing it first hand from a woman sitting across the table from you. Words on a page or numbers and percentages in a report are no substitute for hearing a woman describe what has happened to her and what she has witnessed happen to others. However, what shocked me the most was when she told me in a completely matter-of-fact voice, we have to call them ‘she’ and use their female names and if we don’t we get a punishment. Even the ones who are sexual offenders?! Yes. Even the ones who show off their penises in the shower with you?! Yes. If we don’t we get a punishment.

I am firmly of the opinion that the policy and practice of housing male prisoners who identify as transgender alongside women constitutes an unofficial punishment directed against female offenders and only against female offenders: whilst male prisoners who fulfil the necessary criteria are housed alongside women, no female prisoner who identifies as transgender is ever held in the male estate. Somehow when making decisions about who is allowed in men’s prisons, the prison service can see that sex is immutable and matters. In prison as in the outside world, men get to keep their single-sex spaces. It’s women’s spaces that become mixed sex.

Being held in a mixed sex institution is not a normal consequence of lawful detention. Neither is facing an increased risk of both sexual assault and sexual assault by a male. Nor is the psychological and emotional harm inflicted upon female offenders when they are housed with males. Throughout the criminal justice system, women in prison are recognised as being traumatised, vulnerable and are often the victims of far more serious, usually violent or sexual, offences than those they have been convicted of. This unofficial punishment has another dimension and a particularly sinister one at that. The punishment of compelled and coerced speech. The punishment of indoctrination.

I’m sure some will counter that if you are in prison you don’t get to complain. We all know the saying, if you can’t do the time, then don’t do the crime. To this I say, it is imprisonment, the deprivation of liberty, the removal from society, the loss of time that is the punishment. Imprisonment is not a means to enable a punishment to be inflicted. Convicted offenders who receive a custodial sentence are sent to prison as punishment, nor for punishment.

This process of indoctrination – and it is indoctrination: you are required to only speak approved words to describe a reality that conforms to an approved ideology – robs women in prison of their language, their concepts, their experiences. It is a particular cruelty to women in prison. The data consistently report that female offenders have experienced high rates of violence and sexual assault at the hands of men, often since childhood. Women in prison know all too well who is a man, who is male and which of the two sexes presents the greater risk. However, the male prisoner, the man, becomes the risk that cannot, must not, be identified.

The woman I met told me that female offenders generally don’t complain because there’s simply no point. If a woman did make a complaint about the actions of a male prisoner, she would have to use female pronouns and that prisoner’s chosen female name. But it wasn’t a woman who was aggressive to her, or threatened her, or assaulted her, or showed her his penis. It just wasn’t. It was an adult human male: it was a man. The language she is compelled to use means she is forced to describe an incident that involved a woman. She is forced to agree that this prisoner is a woman, is female.

This is not just the denial of freedom of speech. This is compelled speech. This is forcing women to affirm an ideology. If we don’t we get a punishment.
Since my lunch with the female former offender, the Ministry of Justice has confirmed that women in prison are expected to use ‘correct’ pronouns and may be punished for refusing to comply. In a reply to a written question asked by Lord Philip Hunt, Lord Wolfson explained that it is only where a woman makes ‘an honest mistake’ in using ‘incorrect pronouns’ that she can be assured that she will not suffer a penalty. An ‘honest mistake’? What about an intentional choice of language to refer to the adult human male she sees before her? What about a refusal to affirm gender identity ideology? Post Forstater, gender critical beliefs are protected under the Equality Act (2010) and have been deemed ‘worthy of respect in a democratic society’. What protection does this give the woman in prison?

Many who consider preferred pronouns to be a matter of courtesy and a kindness still draw a line in the sand and decline to use these to refer to a male who has been convicted of violent and sexual offences. Particularly if the very ability to commit these offences is intrinsically tied to the biological fact of being male. But pronouns are not prizes nor are they rewards for ‘good behaviour’. They are neutral with no value-judgement attached. Womanhood is not an honorarium to be bestowed on those males who are somehow ‘deserving’. Pronouns just are and womanhood just is.

It may not surprise you to learn that I won’t use preferred pronouns. Nor will I use the term ‘transwoman’ (nor any of the current variants). My reasons for this are informed by the requirements for safeguarding and my refusal to endorse gender identity ideology, even whilst expressing disagreement. Material reality matters and I make the choice that my language shall be free of concepts belonging to an ideology with which I disagree.

Now I have another reason. I have freedom of expression, but women in prison don’t. In standing by my choice I honour the fact that I, unlike them, have that freedom to insist on reality and reject ideology.

If we don’t we get a punishment

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WomenShouldStillWinWomensSports · 12/11/2023 20:06

Despicable. These women are totally helplessly dependent on the prison staff. You can't even get sanitary towels in prison if a staff member is pissed off with you and won't give them to you. You can't get medical care if they don't let you (this will only really be queried if you actually die). You can't get out of prison on time if they decide you haven't had "good behaviour" and the parole board will believe their reports uncritically. And when you get out, there is no route to complain about treatment and no redress either, and no one will ever believe a criminal over prison staff because society's belief is one is fundamentally good (a pillar of society) and the other is fundamentally evil.

A culture where prison staff are politically partisan in a way that prejudices their charges is really dangerous and means women who believe in biology or who have boundaries and try and enact their basic human rights will be penalised and potentially end up inside for much longer. The power imbalance in prisons cannot be underestimated. If the staff take against you, you are really screwed.

Women in prison who hear that the prison staff think believers in biology are transphobic, and that transphobia makes you a bad worthless human, will just keep shtum for survival. They have no voice to say no unless the staff allow them one.

CaramacFiend · 12/11/2023 20:10

Totally off topic, but I like your username. It's just made me remember about the local antihero dubbed 'Wanksy' in my former town. He was spraypainting big penises around all the potholes at night so that the council were forced to address them. 😂

The council issued a bit of a snotty statement that they 'worked to a maintenance schedule that wasn't influenced by acts of vandalism' but nonetheless the potholes seemed to disappear pretty damn sharpish.

WomenShouldStillWinWomensSports · 12/11/2023 20:17

What is also concerning is we are not hearing the voices of women in psychiatric hospitals, where you are even more dependent on the decisions of staff to decide if you are ever allowed out again (with no chance for an impartial review, usually, it's all down to the psychiatrists who spend so little time with the patients that they usually go with whatever the nursing staff say).

Those voices are very notably absent from either the "males on female hospital wards" or "men in women's prisons" debates.

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 12/11/2023 20:18

Thank you! I always choose 'pothole' themed usernames, in homage to the online comments for the local paper. Potholes are a recurring subject, and numerous people have indeed suggested that we try the 'Wanksy' method. Grin

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NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 12/11/2023 20:24

WomenShouldStillWinWomensSports · 12/11/2023 20:17

What is also concerning is we are not hearing the voices of women in psychiatric hospitals, where you are even more dependent on the decisions of staff to decide if you are ever allowed out again (with no chance for an impartial review, usually, it's all down to the psychiatrists who spend so little time with the patients that they usually go with whatever the nursing staff say).

Those voices are very notably absent from either the "males on female hospital wards" or "men in women's prisons" debates.

Edited

This is an excellent point. We hear from very few of the formerly-incarcerated women affected by this, and absolutely none of the women from locked psychiatric wards.

We often discuss the notorious Karen White who was placed in a women's prison, where he assaulted multiple women, but why was he in a prison at all?

Because he'd been prosecuted for raping a woman on a psychiatric ward.

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WomenShouldStillWinWomensSports · 12/11/2023 20:28

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 12/11/2023 20:24

This is an excellent point. We hear from very few of the formerly-incarcerated women affected by this, and absolutely none of the women from locked psychiatric wards.

We often discuss the notorious Karen White who was placed in a women's prison, where he assaulted multiple women, but why was he in a prison at all?

Because he'd been prosecuted for raping a woman on a psychiatric ward.

Jesus Fucking Christ I didn't even know that part. They really played that part down when they referred to him as a "convicted rapist".

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 12/11/2023 20:31

WomenShouldStillWinWomensSports · 12/11/2023 20:28

Jesus Fucking Christ I didn't even know that part. They really played that part down when they referred to him as a "convicted rapist".

According to the women who have researched the matter more thoroughly, it was an incredibly violent, sustained attack.

He harmed her so severely, that her gynaecological injuries mean she will never be able to have children.

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WomenShouldStillWinWomensSports · 12/11/2023 20:39

@NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision that poor woman. No wonder "Karen" wanted to change his name and put on a dress, he really saw them coming, didn't he. I hope she got help and support, but cynically I bet she didn't, and anyway, there is no support in the world that could ever make that better.

ArthurbellaScott · 12/11/2023 20:45

Fucking hell, I didn't know that about White.

Froodwithatowel · 13/11/2023 08:34

Even more revolting:

Having identified into a women's psychiatric ward where he committed those multiple rapes on that poor woman and left her so badly injured,

White was then put into a women's prison while awaiting the court case, where he got in a few more sexual assaults on women.

Which demonstrates really the whole 'risk assessment' process being something slightly less responsible than a bunch of toddlers let loose with a garden hose.

Slothtoes · 13/11/2023 09:55

I really hope those women have the support they need to recover from those absolutely horrific experiences at the hands of this dangerous man.

Can other women on behalf of those women who have been assaulted in hospitals and prisons because of policies that allow special gender men into spaces where women are vulnerable, not in theory take those organisations to court? Surely there is a legal duty of care on all organisations public and private, not to put in place policies that are completely negligent against women and girls? Is that not what the equality act is for? And don’t hospitals and prisons have special legal duties to safeguard patients and prisoners? It’s impossible to comprehend the misogyny and stupidity of allowing men in, but surely it’s also illegal in some way?!

Froodwithatowel · 13/11/2023 10:27

Sloth might be worth looking up Baroness Nicholson's work on women being raped in hospital wards by males who shouldn't have been there, she was initially involved in the case of the woman raped by a male self identifying where the hospital tried to insist, despite CCTV evidence, that it hadn't happened. A tweet from the Baroness later mentioned many more cases have come forward.

KPSS were involved in the court case of a woman prisoner taking the MoJ to court, all the tweet records are available. I believe from memory (unchecked, more knowledgeable people will know better) the outcome was that to do this to women was not actually illegal. The implication was that it might not be ethical or acceptable, but was not actually illegal.

Slothtoes · 13/11/2023 22:45

Thank you for the background Frood
I think it should be a key part of the women’s agenda with candidates for the next general election then, that they know women need legal protections to be brought in to stop this misogynistic negligence resulting in abuse and attacks on women in vulnerable situations.

There needs to be a new single sex duty of care when women are under the care of public organisations like hospitals or prisons.

It’s beyond fucked up that this is somehow legal for organisations to just decide that they will let men into women’s spaces, when they know women are vulnerable in those spaces.

Dineasair · 29/04/2024 19:39

Slothtoes · 13/11/2023 22:45

Thank you for the background Frood
I think it should be a key part of the women’s agenda with candidates for the next general election then, that they know women need legal protections to be brought in to stop this misogynistic negligence resulting in abuse and attacks on women in vulnerable situations.

There needs to be a new single sex duty of care when women are under the care of public organisations like hospitals or prisons.

It’s beyond fucked up that this is somehow legal for organisations to just decide that they will let men into women’s spaces, when they know women are vulnerable in those spaces.

Yes, it must be. We need to make people aware that this is considered an atrocity, a war crime under the Geneva Convention. We also need to make people aware of the consequences of rape, most people think that it’s just like sex, few realise that a vicious and sadistic rape can often inflict catastrophic injuries to the genitals and reproductive organs, that just gets glossed over right now, it needs to be spelled out I think, people need to be confronted with the reality of a brutal rape and the fear of it that affects women. I think that the horrific nature of many rapes was downplayed because of the need to dispel the idea that it could only be considered rape if a woman fought back and was injured, but that has had consequences of its own and its not worked in our favour.

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