KJK

[Notaflippinclue]

Why the fuck has MUMSNET cancelled her

I know twelvety million people at my works who are now MEGA GC because of KJK.

So I think on aggregate, we're up.

Two people! Two in the same office. And a woman who gets really bloody angry about it is enough to make them stop caring and concentrate on something else entirely.

It's a super power I tell you.

Really?

Should I get ready for Christmas anyway?

I know eight....Cheryl?.....no, seven people who refuse to recognise what dogs are because they aren't vets and KJK said something.

I know of two people where I work who are now far less GC because of things KJK said

Lol @ ‘far less GC’. How does that work?

They used to know that men are not women but now because KJK said some things, they believe that men can sort of slightly be women. Something like that?

I mean you either know particular facts to be true or you don’t. If a person talking about those facts in a way you don’t like can change your mind about those facts, then you’re probably a bit dim.

ArthurbellaScott · Today 08:09

You scrape out the white pith first, SinnerBoy. Then you marinade just the skin in lots of strong soy and spices.

Thanks, but it sounds like a bit of a faff and gives me another get out!

Its often said thar the sign a civilization is coming to an end is when it denies sex exists, and starts eating banana skins

Lang says she's going to try the banana skin bacon this afternoon.

I wonder if KG74's colleagues have really agree that they were Evilbadpeole, or if they just nod and make agreeable noises, to stop the white noise?

I'm going to hazard a guess that the main thing they suffer from is being fictional

I mean you either know particular facts to be true or you don’t. If a person talking about those facts in a way you don’t like can change your mind about those facts, then you’re probably a bit dim.

It truly is one of the stupidest TRA arguments.

I believe in this reality, but if someone I don't like also believes it, I'm not going to believe it.

These people must be hermits. Because if you know more than three people, your head wouldn't stop spinning.

I really do adore the whole attempt at 'once I believed women should have rights and children should be safeguarded and people should be allowed to be homosexual in peace and pride- but then I saw wims being nasty to men and now I'm sexist, homophobic and want kids used by male people seeking experiences. See what you caused by not penis pandering?'.

Yeah.

Have a banana.

I have no idea if anyone is still reading the thread for the original discussion topic.... On the off-chance that someone is:

Obviously this is a completely disingenuous response (although it's a refreshing change for someone to post openly that they have no intention of joining in a conversation and are simply there to throw in a grenade) and has been debunked perfectly above.

BUT.

There will be some women (and men) who have only just started a peaking journey without even realising that they are on it, perhaps through finding out about Isla Bryson or thinking more about women's sports and fairness... who then hear something from KJK and feel very uncomfortable with the way that she is saying it. If you're early on in thinking about gender identity, or if you know people who are trans-identifying (as so many people do now), her messaging can sound like it's "too much" or "harsh". This comes right back round to the point I raised in my first post on this thread, about different GC voices and styles working together being important, and that for some people KJK's delivery style doesn't work.

The public discourse does seem to be swinging slowly in favour of recognising the harms that are being done by gender identity belief but there is clearly still a very long way to go. Recognising the value in different voices and styles, from the KJK/Glinner end through to the more "measured/balanced" (obviously not to the point of enabling abuse - understood), working together...but in their own ways and in their own words... is critical IMO.

Anyway. I imagine this thread will continue to taper off in to salad leaves and bacon and I'll wonder why I bothered posting this comment.... 🥬🥓

"I'll take Things That Didn't Happen for £100 please Bob"

Can't we stand up to men gently and nicely in ways that don't scare the horses?

Love, we tried all of that. Look back at the threads from 2014ish. Women have been doing all this crap and our rights have been steamrollered. A lot of the reason so much progress has been made is women's attempt to be nice and reasonable and the bigger person and win-win and compassionate......

It's been weaponised.

If someone will only apply critical thinking when it's spoon-fed to them in focus-group approved platitudes I wonder how much use they are actually going to be tbh.

There will be some women (and men) who have only just started a peaking journey without even realising that they are on it, perhaps through finding out about Isla Bryson or thinking more about women's sports and fairness... who then hear something from KJK and feel very uncomfortable with the way that she is saying it. If you're early on in thinking about gender identity, or if you know people who are trans-identifying (as so many people do now), her messaging can sound like it's "too much" or "harsh".

Yes, we have had this discussion literally hundreds of times.

If women saying no is 'too harsh' for male ears then the issue is the male assumptions on their entitlement from women. Which is also the issue of men feeling entitled to trample on and exploit women and their resources freely in the seeking of their exploration of their special inner selves.

As you learned on Twitter, @BonfireLady KJK takes no prisoners. You keep praising her for that, but you're giving mixed messages as you keep undermining it too. She's not going to stop what she's doing or change the way she does it. The point that many different approaches are needed is a good one, but again this discussion has been had many times.

FWIW I agree with Kellie that people who use preferred pronouns are part of the problem, unless they absolutely have to. I appreciate that some people need to on the occasions when they talk to their children or TRA colleagues or friends etc. But I think calling men she and "trans women" has led us to where we are now so I won't participate in it. Luckily I don't need to.

Sadly, these are the very people who are doing a great job as the enablers of gender identity being understood as a "truth" currently. So, as a collective they do have an impact.
It's being fed in to workplaces through HR, in to schools through teachers who believe that they are supporting children in the same way as they would be doing for a child who may grow up to be gay.
Until there is a critical mass of people who can see the harms that are being done, there is still value in what is essentially spoon-feeding.

And there is value in hearing someone say it, bluntly. Name the behaviour, tell you the other side, say what you currently wouldn't dare to.

In the early stages here I would hear women speak and flinch, be shocked at their bluntness and directness. But they opened my eyes not only to checking the facts of what they were saying - and they check out - but also my own socialisation and desire to be kind being weaponised against me. My own internalised sexism.

We desperately need the women who will just say it.

What platitudes will achieve is seen in the Labour Sex Fudge. It just means more palatable ways to frame the removal of women's rights.

Yes, exactly. I remember how shocking it was to Adrian Harrop when KJK just simply said "I don't hate them, I just don't believe they are women" in the Sky TV debate. His face! He wasn't expecting it.

I used to think KJK was far too blunt and aggressive, but given the stranglehold the ideology has on so much of public life, I now think she has been spot on since the start which how unequivocal she is, and I wish there had been more of us with her bravery saying no earlier on.

I am aware just how careful with language we have had to be on this board (I'm a relative newcomer) and I know if I were as blunt as Kellie-Jay at work I would be disciplined and probably sacked. But it is becoming easier to take a stand as more people realise just what is going on.

I think the TRAs hate that they can't intimidate her and also that she is gorgeous and feminine but so strong and confident. She is very good at getting her message across with a clear and simple slogan (not her videos, too many words and being distracted by the comments for me). Let Women Speak is genius - the response from the TRAs is screaming No - it sums it up so simply.

I'm not very eloquent today, apologies.

This is the key bit here (my italics):

FWIW I agree with Kellie that people who use preferred pronouns are part of the problem, unless they absolutely have to. I appreciate that some people need to on the occasions when they talk to their children or TRA colleagues or friends etc. But I think calling men she and "trans women" has led us to where we are now so I won't participate in it.

Luckily I don't need to.
I agree that this is a fortunate position to be in.

I also try to make sure I don't give mixed messages and I will continue to work on improving this. It's one of the reasons that I join in the discussions on here, so that I get challenged and have a chance to understand where what I'm saying doesn't make sense. This helps lots when I'm having these conversations in real life - where I'm discussing issues in meetings with health, education and other professionals, by helping me think about how to bring clarity in what I'm trying to say, knowing that I'm talking to a stakeholder group which has so many different viewpoints within it.

The point that many different approaches are needed is a good one, but again this discussion has been had many times.

Indeed. And yet I get told that I'm part of the problem when I take an approach that differs from KJK (I'm not referring to enabling abuse here - there is some really good and helpful info on this in this thread).

She's not going to stop what she's doing or change the way she does it.

Agreed. And I'm very glad that she won't.