Death of the “rough sex” defence…

[NitroNine]

Over in NI a judge has halted a bail application after a man accused of choking a woman announced in court: “She likes rough sex and being strangled”. (Link archived at archive.ph)

In July 2022 the law in England & Wales was strengthened to remove the so-called “rough sex defence”. Northern Ireland actually got there a few months earlier, abolishing that line of defence is a specific provision of the Justice (Sexual Offences and Trafficking Victims) Bill of April 2022. Scotland has not brought forward any such legislation nor is there any plan to. Worryingly, the FM doesn’t seem to understand that prior to the legislative changes the rest of the UK had laws by which one could not consent to harm, yet the rough sex defence was rolling merrily through the Courts.

Seeing a judge shut down an abusive man so completely - especially in the part of the UK with the worst DV rates - is heartening. It would be even better if Scotland would get on board with the rest of the UK & accept the need to legislate the abhorrent “rough sex defence” out of existence. It’s quite something that women are STILL having to campaign to get their murders/manslaughters recognised.

That's a huge step towards a more civilized society.

Absolutely! Thanks for the update.

Thanks for that heartening information Nitro; it’s not often that I get to feel relieved at officialdom in N Ireland and its attitude to women.

There's also a TV and billboard campaign here, telling men it's no defence.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/uk.news.yahoo.com/amphtml/watch-northern-ireland-tv-campaign-090532946.html

Thanks for that info Boots, it makes for interesting and hopeful reading

At least it's a step forward. Scotland is barbaric in the way it treats women.

It's a great campaign. No victim blaming, no putting the onus on women and no ambiguity. It's a direct messag to men, do this and you've committed a crime.

A step in the right direction.

Heartening. Thanks, OP.

The ad campaign is really powerful Boots, thanks for sharing it - I’m in That London so I keep my BelTel subscription, but miss out on things like that.

As you say Utopia, it’s something for NI to be really proud of. (Bit confused by Bill apparently coming into force in June when received Royal Assent in April, but 🤷‍♀️)

Call me old fashioned but does anyone actually ever enjoy being strangled during sex?
I've heard of auto erotic asphyxiation but I don't understand what would be erotic about it

Not my thing but I'm told the oxygen deprivation gives you a buzz

Usually when this topic comes up we get a few "women" telling us how much they love it.

Cool, crack on with it if that's what genuinely floats your boat, just know that if it does go wrong there will be consequences.

There is also a similar campaign planned in England this month, I think it starts on the 16th. I can check the date when at work tonight.

I believe a certain type of man gets off on the act of strangling and hurting a woman - it’s a sadism/power and 'complete failure to see women as human beings' thing.

That wouldn't surprise me, but that doesn't explain why people do it to themselves.

There are some people out there who enjoy auto-asphyxiation, and very sadly it occasionally costs them their lives when they try it on their own and things go horribly wrong. Anyone experiencing such feelings should be encouraged to get help for their own safety.

I'm very glad the law has changed as it's obvious nobody could give meaningful consent to being treated in that manner by someone else.

There is something about it. I've never gone the whole way with this but I love a little bit of pressure being applied to my neck during sex. In saying this, I'm pleased and agree with the movement. I'm sure tons of rapists get away with it because of this defence.

In BDSM relationships it's always meant to be the sub that's in control not the dom so it's not even remotely conflicting.

One of the few things we got right 😌

The thing is, even in the seconds leading up to loss of consciousness, restriction of the arteries (and therefore oxygenated blood flow to the brain) can result in dyspraxia (so lack of voluntary movement, including hand signals and speaking) and memory difficulties (so forgetting safe words and gestures, or even that you can stop it). So even if the stranglee ostensibly has control, and this is in a loving relationship, they may not be able to make it stop until it is too late.

Really pleased to see this campaign, and how seriously NI is taking this. I didn't know about the England/Wales campaign - where might I find that?

If you need strangulation you're doing it wrong.

If you need to cover your food in tomato ketchup, you're food is shit.

Get some good quality home baked food made with love and nothing else is needed.

People need to move back towards tantra, not violence.

I don't genuinely believe any man in court over a woman's murder who uses the "sex game gone wrong" defence is remotely telling the truth.

In BDSM relationships it's always meant to be the sub that's in control not the dom so it's not even remotely conflicting.
This statement is a dangerous rookie error perpetuated by Fifty Shades of Grey. Actually the dom and sub (or top and bottom or whoever else is taking whatever role they have established) are both in control to equal amounts. Both parties have to consent and both parties can withdraw that consent at any time. Not just the submissive.

This is KEY because it means that if it goes wrong and someone dies, even if he says she consented, it's indefensible. The dominant or top should have withdrawn their consent to do the act when they saw that they were out of their depth. They don't blindly kill someone. It is really dangerous to pretend a dominant is powerless but to do what the submissive asked of them, and it is utter bollocks. A skilled and experienced top will safeword if they need to stop things, which is why you never see genuine BDSM-ers in court on murder charges.

The only people who end up in court claiming "we were doing BDSM" are untrained idiots doing something they don't understand and pathological liars trying to get away with murder.

If it was genuinely BDSM-ers doing these things, you'd see women dominants in court claiming "sex game gone wrong" from breathplay or choking fetishes with male or female submissives, and gay men claiming it too, and you never do because actual dominants know what they are doing before they do it and call it off if they need to and always have that bit of awareness (the part of you that watches yourself) keeping track of the welfare of the other person.

It's just misogynists trying to lie to save themselves and they care so little about the woman they have killed that they would rather her grieving family think she liked a type of sex that's very stigmatised rather than take their punishment for murder.

Also it's really fucking easy to establish if people had an interest in a niche subculture or not by doing a quick check of their house and electronic devices.

The rough sex defence should never ever have been allowed and removing it won't affect responsible and properly-trained BDSM practitioners following SSC in the slightest so people coming on and going "but I like rough sex, this law will harm me" need protecting from themselves because they are clearly not trained and shouldn't be engaging in the things they are doing.

It's the blend of physiology changes associated with increased CO2, I think.

Dunno why men (and it's overwhelmingly them) don't (comparatively) safely use a CO2 tank, breathing apparatus, and pulse oximeter set-up instead.

Good.

I've never understood the 'rough sex defence'. If someone kills or injures their passenger by driving at 59mph on a winding country road, I doubt there's ever been any mitigation whatsoever for claiming that the passenger got a thrill from such driving.

Brilliantly articulated and so true