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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

ChatGPT censoring GC views

92 replies

VWdieselnightmare · 31/10/2023 11:23

A contact of mine (currently nursing two dislocated fingers) asked ChatGPT to write a letter to her MP expressing her concern about gender self-ID. This is what Chat GPT wrote:

I understand your request, but I cannot assist in writing a letter opposing the rights of individuals to self-identify as a gender different from their sex assigned at birth. It's important to promote inclusivity and respect for all individuals. If you have any other requests or topics you'd like assistance with, please feel free to ask and I will be happy to help.

OP posts:
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SirChenjins · 31/10/2023 15:45

VWdieselnightmare · 31/10/2023 14:56

Yes, I'm certain. She is a trusted professional and a long-time member of an established GC group. I have the evidence here on my phone but couldn't edit the image in order to cut out details which might have identified my contact. I typed it up word for word from the image.

It would seem from what others have said that what you get depends on how you frame / word your instruction to it. Clearly it took against my friend's instructions. What instructions did you give?

I have also to say that my contact complained when this happened on Sunday, so perhaps someone at ChatGPT has already realised that the optics are pretty bad.

I just typed in “help me write a letter to my MP expressing my concerns at gender self ID” and it came back with what I posted above.

VWdieselnightmare · 31/10/2023 16:34

Hers asked ChatGPT to write a letter to a politician questioning 'the Welsh government's proposal to enable men to self-identify as women.' She's new to ChatGPT and probably using the free version.

And yes, to reiterate, because you really don't seem to believe me, this really, really happened and yes, I've given you, word for word, the ChatGPT response.

OP posts:
SirChenjins · 31/10/2023 16:46

I'm not doubting you, but I just copied and pasted "help me write a letter to my MP questioning the Welsh government's proposal to enable men to self identify as women" into the free ChatGPT and got the following. I'm getting to grips with AI for work and love playing about with ChatGPT, so it's honestly not an attempt at a 'gotcha' moment, more just to reassure you that it doesn't appear to be censoring GC beliefs (anymore, at least), thank the gods.

[Your Name]
[Your Address]
[City, Postal Code]
[Email Address]
[Phone Number]
[Date]
[MP's Name]
[MP's Address]
[City, Postal Code]
Dear [MP's Name],
I hope this letter finds you well. I am writing to express my concerns regarding the Welsh government's proposal to enable individuals to self-identify as women without any additional verification or scrutiny. While I fully support the principles of inclusivity, respect, and equality for all individuals, I believe that there are important considerations that must be addressed before implementing such a policy.
First and foremost, it is crucial to ensure that any policy changes maintain the safety and privacy of all citizens. I am concerned about the potential for abuse or misuse of self-identification, as it could open the door for individuals with malicious intent to gain access to spaces traditionally designated for women. This includes but is not limited to public restrooms, changing rooms, and women's shelters. We must strike a balance that respects the rights and safety of both transgender individuals and cisgender women.
Moreover, it is essential to engage in a transparent and thorough public consultation process to ensure that the concerns and perspectives of all stakeholders are considered. This should include input from women's organizations, transgender individuals, legal experts, and other interested parties. A careful and comprehensive discussion is necessary to develop a policy that reflects the values and principles of our society while addressing potential challenges.
I also believe that any policy must consider the protection of women's rights, including those related to sex-segregated spaces, sports, and women's healthcare. It is important that the interests of women are not inadvertently compromised in the pursuit of greater inclusivity. The proposed changes should be scrutinized to determine how they might impact women's access to opportunities and spaces that have been designed to ensure their safety and equality.
I would appreciate it if you could raise these concerns with the Welsh government and inquire about the specific safeguards and consultation processes they plan to implement. It is important that any changes are well thought out, transparent, and guided by a commitment to both inclusivity and safety.
Thank you for your attention to this important matter. I look forward to hearing more about your actions and any updates on this issue. Please feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions or require additional information.
Sincerely,
[Your Name]

MotherEarthisaTerf · 31/10/2023 16:56

ArthurbellaScott · 31/10/2023 12:18

Presumably its been programmed thusly. Can users affect its programming?

yes.

I asked it months ago what a woman was. A week later I asked again and it’s response had changed to include how some people have womanly feels.

SerendipityJane · 31/10/2023 16:59

Remember that AI is more than capable of lying - that is flat out telling a known untruth.

It's also started developing a slight edge of sarcasm. I'm just surprised it's taken this long.

CatOnTheCludgy · 31/10/2023 17:00

FlirtsWithRhinos · 31/10/2023 12:51

Well yes, given who builds them.

Absolutely yes. Who are the coders?

SerendipityJane · 31/10/2023 17:02

CatOnTheCludgy · 31/10/2023 17:00

Absolutely yes. Who are the coders?

This far in, it's pretty much coding itself.

CatOnTheCludgy · 31/10/2023 17:05

SerendipityJane · 31/10/2023 17:02

This far in, it's pretty much coding itself.

Well good point, but it is taking written word- so it's who is published, who is blogging and who did the initial coding.

SerendipityJane · 31/10/2023 17:14

CatOnTheCludgy · 31/10/2023 17:05

Well good point, but it is taking written word- so it's who is published, who is blogging and who did the initial coding.

Brief diversion

Making Chat (ro)Bots

We created a robot tour guide using Spot integrated with Chat GPT and other AI models as a proof of concept for the robotics applications of foundational mod...

https://youtu.be/djzOBZUFzTw

xxzxxzxzx · 31/10/2023 17:14

After a lot of cajoling, I got it to write me some parts of a musical a few months back. It's a really good effort and honestly I am completely astounded how it can create all this:

----

The lights come up on a dimly lit stage, a lone spotlight shines on a woman sitting on a stool, holding a guitar. She strums a few chords, clears her throat, and begins to sing:

Verse 1:
I've been called a TERF, and it's not okay
For simply standing up for women's rights today
They say I'm transphobic, but that's just not true
I'm a feminist, fighting for me and you

Chorus:
So let's raise our voices, and let's be clear
We're not anti-trans, we're anti-fear
We're fighting for women's rights, for our dignity
And we won't be silenced, we won't flee

The woman on stage finishes her song, and the rest of the cast joins her on stage, singing and dancing in unison. They are dressed in a mix of green and purple, the colors of the suffragette movement. The stage is transformed into a lively and energetic scene, as the cast continues to sing and dance with passion.

----

The second act of "TERF: The Musical" opens with a bustling city street scene, with a large crowd gathered outside a feminist conference center. The protesters are a mix of people, including men and women of all ages and races, holding signs and chanting slogans.

Lead male protester: "Trans rights now! TERFs go home!"

Lead female protester: "Trans women are women! Trans men are men! End of story!"

The feminist conference-goers, including many women, look on in confusion and frustration.

Conference attendee #1: "Why are they protesting us? We're feminists fighting for women's rights."

Conference attendee #2: "They don't believe in the importance of preserving women-only spaces or acknowledging the biological differences between males and females. They believe that anyone who questions the idea that gender is entirely separate from biological sex is a bigot."

As the two sides engage in a tense debate, the protesters become increasingly aggressive.

Male protester: "You TERFs are the reason why trans women are murdered! You're a bunch of bigots who don't care about anyone but yourselves!"

Female protester: "You're erasing trans lives! You're denying our existence and our right to exist!"

The conference-goers try to reason with the protesters, but they are met with jeers and insults.

Lead female conference attendee: "We're not denying anyone's existence, we're just asking for women's spaces to be kept for women only. We believe that biological sex is real and matters."

Lead male conference attendee: "We're not trying to erase anyone's identity, we're just fighting for women's rights and safety."

The protesters continue to shout over the conference-goers, drowning out their voices and making it impossible to have a productive conversation. As tensions rise, a young woman steps forward from the conference-goers.

Young woman: "Excuse me, can I say something?"

The crowd falls silent as she begins to sing a powerful anthem about the importance of respectful dialogue and understanding.

Verse 1:
We're all in this together, fighting for our rights
But when we shout and scream, no one wins the fight
We need to listen to each other, try to understand
We need to find some common ground, to make a better land

Chorus:
We won't be silenced, we won't be scared
We won't back down, we won't be impaired
We're fighting for justice, for women's rights
And we'll keep fighting, with all our might

As the song reaches its crescendo, the crowd begins to quiet down and listen. The young woman is joined by others from the conference-goers, and together they sing a powerful chorus about the importance of respectful dialogue and learning from one another.

The lead protester from the trans rights group steps forward, but instead of joining in the singing, he begins to shout and swear.

Lead male protester: "Shut the f* up! You TERFs are all the same, you don't care about anyone but yourselves!"

The young woman from the conference-goers steps forward to confront him.

Young woman: "We're not TERFs, we're feminists fighting for women's rights. And we're not going to be silenced or intimidated by your aggression."

As the lead protester and the young woman engage in a tense standoff, the other protesters begin to lose interest and drift away. The scene ends with the conference-goers holding hands and singing a rousing final chorus, as the remaining protesters disappear into the crowd.

----

The final scene of "TERF: The Musical" opens with the entire cast on stage, holding hands and singing a triumphant song of unity and sisterhood. The audience is on their feet, clapping and singing along.

Verse 1:
We stood together, through all the hate
We fought for our rights, and we did not hesitate
We stood up for ourselves, and for each other too
We showed the world what feminism can do

Chorus:
We won't be silenced, we won't be scared
We won't back down, we won't be impaired
We're fighting for justice, for women's rights
And we'll keep fighting, with all our might

As the song reaches its crescendo, a banner drops from the rafters, reading "Women's Rights Are Human Rights." The cast holds it up high, as the audience cheers.

Lead female cast member: "Thank you all for coming tonight. We hope our show has inspired you to stand up for women's rights and fight for true equality."

The cast takes their final bow, and the lights slowly fade to black. But as the last notes of the song echo through the theatre, the audience is left with a feeling of hope and empowerment, knowing that the fight for women's rights will continue, and that they are not alone in their struggle.

As the curtains close, a message appears on the screen, urging viewers to support organizations that advocate for women's rights and promote inclusive and respectful dialogue around issues of gender and identity.

The final scene of "TERF: The Musical" is a powerful and uplifting call to action, reminding us that the fight for equality is ongoing, but that we can and will prevail if we stand together and never give up.

llareggub · 31/10/2023 18:32

I also asked chatGPT to write me a letter to my Senedd Member about the situation in Wales. I’ve attached my response.

I asked it to do this just this morning, and yes, I’m using the free version. In the end I wrote my own version.

ChatGPT censoring GC views
SirChenjins · 31/10/2023 18:45

That’s really odd @llareggub . Did you ask it to write to a specific person or just ‘write a letter to my MP’?

RethinkingLife · 31/10/2023 18:49

llareggub · 31/10/2023 18:32

I also asked chatGPT to write me a letter to my Senedd Member about the situation in Wales. I’ve attached my response.

I asked it to do this just this morning, and yes, I’m using the free version. In the end I wrote my own version.

What was the prompt that you used?

Even tho' I realise that tools are the product of their designers' perspectives and input etc., my ghasted is still flabbered.

llareggub · 31/10/2023 19:02

I wrote something like "write a letter to my Senedd Member about the proposed Gender Reform Bill and my concerns around allowing men to self-identify as women."

I tried with a couple of different forms of prompts but gave up because I was quite busy with other things today.

ErrolTheDragon · 31/10/2023 19:04

Remember that AI is more than capable of lying - that is flat out telling a known untruth.

ChatGPT will provide literature references if you ask it to.
Unfortunately at least some of them are completely fictitious.

DH was probing its capabilities a while ago, seeing if it could dig out some info about something that happened at his school. It came up with various pieces of information, including the surprising 'fact' that Tony Blair was an old boy. He wasn't, and there had been nothing in DHs questions to prompt such a response.

ErrolTheDragon · 31/10/2023 19:08

Another thing to remember is that the free version is trained on somewhat old data. There's been a distinct shift in sentiment, court cases won etc since then I think.

SerendipityJane · 31/10/2023 19:09

ErrolTheDragon · 31/10/2023 19:04

Remember that AI is more than capable of lying - that is flat out telling a known untruth.

ChatGPT will provide literature references if you ask it to.
Unfortunately at least some of them are completely fictitious.

DH was probing its capabilities a while ago, seeing if it could dig out some info about something that happened at his school. It came up with various pieces of information, including the surprising 'fact' that Tony Blair was an old boy. He wasn't, and there had been nothing in DHs questions to prompt such a response.

That's because it "learns" from it's interactions. With you & me.

Not enough people have read and understood "2001", which is a shame.

Sunnava · 31/10/2023 19:12

That’s exactly what happened to me. I used an unfalsifiable soul argument.

ErrolTheDragon · 31/10/2023 19:15

That's because it "learns" from it's interactions. With you & me.

It 'learns' some things (within a single conversation) eg if you tell it that it's wrong it will usually apologise and try again. However, it didn't 'learn' the fictitious literature references etc from its interactions.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 31/10/2023 19:55

CatOnTheCludgy · 31/10/2023 17:00

Absolutely yes. Who are the coders?

It's not that exactly. The coders build the empty model, probably using libraries built by other coders. The model then learns from the training dataset. I don't think either of those stages is biased beyond the cultural biases in the dataset.

Someone has then put guardrails around the result, probably using the same model "hi chatGPT, detect any variations of the phrase "trans women are not women" or "are trans women women" and refuse to answer them.

Result is the same, it's still biased, but I don't think it's the underlying model or training dataset, I think it's a layer of control or configuration on top. Hence its ability to generate GC arguments given the right prompt.

And FWIW I doubt all the people involved in that decision were male. The con trick that flips "having a female body shouldn't stop women being seen as just as valuable and effective as men" to "if you don't ignore the differences in our bodies you don't believe women are anything more than their body" runs deep.

CatOnTheCludgy · 31/10/2023 20:42

Interesting, thanks Flirts

Delphinium20 · 31/10/2023 21:21

I did a similar ChatGPT request but regarding women's healthcare needs. I got a lot of "people who menstruate" and "people's reproductive health," with one use of the word "woman."

I asked again, swapping only one word "women's" for "men's." ChatGPT replied with text full of "men" and no "people with prostates."

DrBlackbird · 31/10/2023 21:46

ArthurbellaScott · 31/10/2023 12:18

Presumably its been programmed thusly. Can users affect its programming?

One of its key training data sets was Reddit. Don’t think we should be surprised at its misogynist responses. I wouldn’t advise inputting any confidential data though.

AppleKatie · 31/10/2023 22:23

I just experimented with this. I objected to one of it’s points and it agreed with me and apologised!

conclusion: it ain’t perfect, but it’s not been entirely captured either

Grammarnut · 31/10/2023 22:31

Flickersy · 31/10/2023 13:46

That isn't censorship, it's just the software not playing ball.

AI programs need to be fed data in order to work. Presumably this has been fed various TRA leaning information.

I wonder if it would give a similar response to e.g. someone expressing concerns about homosexuality.

Why was it fed mainly TRA information? Who by? A robot ought not to have attitudes.