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Original poster

Canada's outing of "pretendians" may be right where they are taking reserved places but has CBC gone too far in persuing Buffy Sainte-Marie

63 replies

IwantToRetire · 29/10/2023 19:55

I think I have read a bit about instances of "pretendian" where Canadians have claimed Indigenous heritage to get college places etc..

But without knowing the truth about Buffy Sainte-Marie didn't she in fact make a name for herself because of her talent, or are they implying she would not have been as famous as she was if she hadn't claimed Indigenous heritage?

If true is it as bad as Rachel Dolezal's deception?

In all honesty I dont know that much about her, but CBC thought it important enough to do a whole investigation into her. https://www.cbc.ca/newsinteractives/features/buffy-sainte-marie

This is her statement in response. Even if you aren't on facebook you can just dismiss the sign in box. If you click on the image of the statement it should bring up a larger version, though still hard to read. https://www.facebook.com/BuffySainteMarie/posts/pfbid02LLqDomVDQaBdU2UxJ4jkSXxQGB4R5PR6paSgwLEUWJFJZ5xcCx4BVWLYkrH7f2G6l?locale=en_GB

Who is the real Buffy Sainte-Marie?

Buffy Sainte-Marie’s claims to Indigenous ancestry are being contradicted by members of the iconic singer-songwriter's own family and an extensive CBC investigation.

https://www.cbc.ca/newsinteractives/features/buffy-sainte-marie

OP posts:

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Original poster

IwantToRetire · 30/11/2023 00:12

Nobody said it. She's making shit up to validate her outrage against white people.

This is a really unpleasant and unecessary remark. And wouldn't wonder if someone doesn't report it to MNHQ as racist.

Its really sad that even on FWR that the moment there is a thread in which the issue relates to or is directly about people from different cultures, some always decide that it is part of some sort of "anti-white" plot.

My question was just to understand how that impression should have been given.

OP posts:

slore · 30/11/2023 00:26

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Rudderneck · 30/11/2023 00:26

SkylinePigeon · 29/11/2023 11:42

I'm non-white and something I notice a lot as a minority which really bothers me is that any time anyone is accused of racism, like clockwork, you get loads of white people online who have basically gone out and found one minority who doesn't mind whatever the thing is, then they parade that person around and use them as a justification for racism and a way to attack those who actually are bothered by it, and cast those calling out racism as the ones who are actually being racist.

The whole "well Actual Token Non-White Person doesn't mind which makes it Officially Not Racist" is a really well-known tactic.

I see it on MN and elsewhere all the time, "Well my black friend doesn't think it's racist so actually you're the ones being racist by virtue signalling about something Actual Black People don't mind." Clearly assuming the other poster must be white.

Or "I don't see race, so actually I'm the one who is not being racist, and anyone who calls me racist is the real racist because they're making everything about race."

This is actually happening with regards to my own minority group right now, there's a film out that contains a very well-known racist stereotype, and one minority person associated with the film defended it and said it didn't bother them, so now every comments section is full of white people howling "But Actual Minority said this stereotype was fine so actually the real racists are the ones critiquing it, because they're trying to speak on behalf of Actual Minorities, who think it's fine, everyone else is just bandwagon jumping in order to virtue signal." When the vast, vast majority of people from that actual minority group think it's racist as fuck, and the practically all the comments online decrying it are from people who are actually from that minority group. There's a lot of people online who seem to assume that everyone online is white and that minorities can't possibly log on to articulate their feelings.

Minorities aren't a hive mind. I'm uncomfortable with the implication that tribal people are cool with her lies just because her own close friends made one pretty nebulous statement in support of her, and that it's white people making a fuss in order to virtue signal. Clearly a lot of tribal people are furious at her, or deeply upset and feel betrayed, and maybe some do have more pragmatic feelings or just don't care. Because tribal people are people just like anyone else, they're unique individuals with their own individual opinions and perspectives.

These are kind of opposite things though. On the one hand, it's not ok to treat a group as a hive mind. On the other, it's not ok to point out they aren't a hive mind? The point, usually, of pointing out some disagree is to say it's not a hive mind issue, even among the relevant group of people.

Group identity requiring ideological unity is the natural outcome of identarian politics. Groups have to be a hive mind for that kind of thinking to work.

And I think it's pretty unfair to see it as a "white" thing. There are plenty of people in minority communities that want to use that kind of argument when it benefits them, glossing over disagreement in their own group, so they can push a certain viewpoint they want - and paint anyone who disagrees as a racist, homophobe, etc. Members of communities who step out of line are often subject to the worst abuse from members of their own community. Like the people who formed the GB Alliance in the UK, or black conservatives in the US.

If people would actually step up and make an argument, instead of just trying to claim their identity status means they are in the right, it would make political discussions a heck of a lot more fruitful.

AlisonDonut · 30/11/2023 09:00

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Which poster are you talking about?

SkylinePigeon · 30/11/2023 13:56

IwantToRetire · 29/11/2023 17:34

I'm uncomfortable with the implication that tribal people are cool with her lies

Where has anyone said that?

"And if the First Nations Peoples are saying "stop, she is one of us" we should believe them."

Quote from upthread.

SkylinePigeon · 30/11/2023 14:10

It's pretty fucking telling that minorities can't express an opinion on Mumsnet without a huge pile-on from people crying "anti-white racism."

This happens literally every single time anyone admits to being non-white. Immediately the thread is completely hijacked by multiple posters making personal attacks about that poster, forcing that person into the position of defending themselves, so that the thread stops being about racism (which is their goal, to disrupt and censor any debate or discussion about racism or race-related issues) and the whole thread becomes "Is Non-White Poster Awful Or Not." That's not just racist, it's also extremely rude to those who wish to discuss the actual topic.

It's a very well-worn tactic: try to derail by making any poster who disagrees with you the subject of the thread and try to encourage other posters to discuss the poster, rather than the actual subject.

This thread is about a white woman pretending to be an ethnic minority.

Accusing me of "ignoring" the fact that other minorities have done the same is very obviously bad faith tactics, since none of those other people are the subject of this particular thread. Why should I mention random unrelated people who have nothing to do with the subject of the thread? No one else here has mentioned those other people either, so why am I being singled out and targeted for not mentioning them?

AlisonDonut · 30/11/2023 16:12

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SkylinePigeon · 30/11/2023 17:44

Please get back to discussing the thread, and not me personally.

(Thanks MNHQ for deleting the racially abusive posts.)

AlisonDonut · 30/11/2023 18:07

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AlisonDonut · 01/12/2023 07:16

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SkylinePigeon · 02/12/2023 16:48

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AlisonDonut · 02/12/2023 17:02

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MNHQ

KimMumsnet · 02/12/2023 17:32

Hello, all. To keep this thread on track, please don't resort to personal attacks. If you see any posts which you feel break our Talk Guidelines, please do report them to us rather than calling each other out on the thread. Thanks.

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