Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
Brainworm · 29/10/2023 10:42

This was an inevitable outcome of the Cass recommendation to have a broader range of professionals involved in the new clinics' multi disciplinary teams (MDTs).

In my career I have been part of a many MDTs. It isn't uncommon for professionals to take different views (e.g a psychiatrist thinking a diagnosis of autism explains a child's behaviour whilst a psychologist thinks early neglect and trauma is a better explanation). MDTs improve patient care as hypotheses and explorations go wider than would be the case with a single professional/discipline. The team discuss the merits of different 'formulations' and this can often lead to further (needed) exploration.

GIDS (the Tavi iteration) comprised of (or was managed in to being) a team who all signed up to the same doctrine and within the MDTs, no disagreement that went outside the doctrine was tolerated (transphobia). The only accepted positioning was ideological but framed by them as 'ethical'.

The Tavi don't have concerns about the lack of evidence in relation to the types of evidence others are calling for, and will be required when working with non indoctrinated team members. This is because the Tavi think we need to 'decolonise psychology'. Apparently, the Western world has 'limited ideas' about what counts as evidence and these limited ideas (scientific approaches) aren't benign. They serve as a tool for oppressing marginalised groups (such as trans people). Therefore, they feel righteous about not having this evidence and think claims that it should determine patient care are a problem in itself.

It is hard to see how Tavi clinicians can operate effectively in an MDT with clinicians who hold opposing views on what counts as evidence.

The NHS is organised around, and operates from, scientific evidence. I can't see how a service, now under proper level of scrutiny and expected to be aligned with other clinical services, can be based on 'decolonised' evidence. What is coming out now via Kathleen Stock and this article are evidence of this.

I can't see how they can reconcile 'building on what is already working well in gender medicine' (which is the rationale for moving over Tavi staff) with more robust processes (using science to guide practice). The non Tavi staff will sit in MDTs and innocently ask for evidence to back formulations and assertions and will not be able to support them. The ex Tavi staff will not accept any challenge that is grounded in 'oppression' (aka scientific studies).

My money is that the Tavi ideologues days are numbered. The NHS is too strapped for cash to be funding anything that isn't effective or defensible. I am not, however, willing to bet on how long it'll take to get there. I had hoped (but not expected) that due to the time scale of planned opening, they would have just chucked out the Tavi crew when all this came to light. Instead, they delayed opening to try and reconcile irreconcilable differences.

ArthurbellaScott · 29/10/2023 13:05

Thanks, Brainworm.

'I can't see how they can reconcile 'building on what is already working well in gender medicine' (which is the rationale for moving over Tavi staff) with more robust processes (using science to guide practice). The non Tavi staff will sit in MDTs and innocently ask for evidence to back formulations and assertions and will not be able to support them. The ex Tavi staff will not accept any challenge that is grounded in 'oppression' (aka scientific studies).'

Yes. There isn't a middle ground between 'evidence based' and 'ideology based'.

The NHS are going to have to choose.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 29/10/2023 13:41

I was concerned at the time that Cass was too "gentle" about the appalling lack of evidence & research & the fact that these medics have been experimenting on children. But given the levels of capture appreciated that it was important to be evidenced and not provoke an over reaction.
I suppose it's worked to an extent as the general population are now totally behind stopping experiments on children and those arguing for immediate affirmation just out themselves as ideologically driven.

I just hope that the children's hospitals are able to hold the line for ethical medical practice for children. Having seen how the Tavistock and the NHS have thoughtlessly bought into "born in the wrong body", TWAW etc, I'm just not confident that medical ethics are strong enough to fight off the gender woowoo brigade. Do hope that I'm wrong.

OP posts:
ADoggyDogWorld · 17/01/2024 02:32

A shambles really, isn't it.

TaytoCheeseandOnion · 17/01/2024 05:10

Jaysus.

Froodwithatowel · 17/01/2024 07:52

So in essence it's all falling to bits because the lobby representatives won't tolerate anything but their views and their chosen model.

Gosh I am surprised.

Were you surprised? I was surprised....

ArthurbellaScott · 17/01/2024 09:18

'...the Academy of Medical Royal Colleges (AMRC) has been called on to try to rescue the opening planned for April this year. Great Ormond Street Hospital (Gosh), one of the hospitals that will run the new London-based service, was responsible for developing key training materials, but has been unable to produce them on time. The material, which a team of ten was employed to work on from last spring, was meant to have been finalised months ago, but it’s understood the group could not agree on the content. A planned training day for new staff was cancelled in October 2023 with just a day’s notice. Gosh will play no further role in training going forward, with that responsibility being taken over by the AMRC. '

Is that the sound of qualified medics opening a can of worms and then dropping a hot potato? Hot wormy potato, maybe?

ArthurbellaScott · 17/01/2024 09:22

'The desire to recruit people with different views ultimately led to placing Gids whistleblowers – those who had repeatedly raised concerns about the safety of the service and the clinical model it was operating under – alongside those they had either blown the whistle on, or who were still working under a system they had roundly criticised. It could never work. The team manager’s resignation in October 2023 was quickly followed by others. LinkedIn profiles confirm that several other members of the team stopped working at Gosh in December.'

It's not quite clear who left and who remains. Is it the cheerleaders for 'affirmative' care?

What reputable medics would want to be involved in this exercise, which to me looks like building the Titanic?

Sisterpita · 17/01/2024 09:55

I know it’s been said before but we are going to end up with another inquiry with the NHS, Tavistock & its replacement all trying to avoid being held responsible. Data collection and evidence based treatment will all come under the spotlight.

Individual therapists/clinicians will be held to account for lack of exploring options and rushing to medicalise.

Despite how bad the NHS is I am thankful we are not in the USA where medical insurance will pay for puberty blockers and surgery. There are a lot of Drs and drug companies getting very fat on the income stream this is generating.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page