Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

School nurse advised autistic 14 yr old to take puberty blockers

32 replies

WarriorN · 27/10/2023 05:55

And detailed how to access:

Two twitter threads, one by the parent of the child who found the notes the nurse made for the child on a pamphlet:

x.com/callie43916570/status/1717617008798314691?s=46&t=A2fpFNgDRyXF2d6ye97wEA

Child was directed to mermaids and Mother shows details of gofundme budgeting child made in order to access gender Gp.

And a second linked thread by Clare Page / No Secret lessons, exploring who was involved in writing the pamphlet:

x.com/nosecretlessons/status/1717643770525622578?s=46&t=A2fpFNgDRyXF2d6ye97wEA

Particularly Sci:dentity - linking to a horrifically sexist schools drama workshop whereby children took a quiz and worked out their gender identity score based on questions such as "I can knit" and "I have more oestrogen than testosterone in my body" and a description of teaching children that they don't need to have a penis to be a man.

Which a young boy repeats readily and thanks his 'teachers' for helping him understand this.

(Of course, what is not said is the inverse; you can be a woman with a penis...)

School nurse advised autistic 14 yr old to take puberty blockers
School nurse advised autistic 14 yr old to take puberty blockers
School nurse advised autistic 14 yr old to take puberty blockers
OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Boiledbeetle · 27/10/2023 12:02

Ooh that quiz.

Male I circled 4
Masculine 5
Female 5
Feminine 2

So what? I'm slight more female than male but more masculine than feminine?
It's all nonsense! What's a kid today going to take from that? Probably that they really should be a man.

pronounsbundlebundle · 27/10/2023 12:07

I'm the one who has the excellent sense of direction - it's an innate ability, I only have to go somewhere once to forever after remember the way. DH is bloody useless, he can be going to a grocery store he's been to 100 times and still get lost. He's 6ft3, muscular and male and I'm 5ft5 and have had 2 kids with the body shape to match.

Bloody ridiculous, regressive bollocks. Breaches so many school guidelines it's untrue. And, for all the bleating about the equality act when it suits them, this is very clear discrimination on the basis of the protected characteristic of sex surely? In both directions? Boys don't cry? FFS.

EasternStandard · 27/10/2023 12:09

WarriorN · 27/10/2023 05:57

The quiz used in a drama workshop

I bet the creators of the GRA didn’t foresee this gravy train they allowed for

BonfireLady · 28/10/2023 14:38

RedToothBrush · 27/10/2023 11:43

Posted the following on another thread this morning, but it feels more appropriate here. It is worse when considering in the context of actively giving this information to autistic children:

I'm just reading DeTrans by Dr AZ Hakeem and its fascinating to read back comments here about an inability to understand the world in certain ways displayed by a lot of trans people because of the huge correlation with autism.

The way he describes it, it sounds a lot like its almost a social communication version of not developing the concept of object permanence. Object permanence is understanding that an object still exists even if you can't see it - think babies who get very excited at peek a boo because they don't grasp that you are still there the whole time.

Instead he says that trans people with autism lack a 'theory of mind' - the inability to really discern what another person with who they are interacting is thinking combined with black and white thinking - which leads to them living by rules which they decide to be right and expect others to see the world as they do, and if others don't follow their own rules they get very upset and think everyone else is wrong.

This taken to the extreme means that they have very black and white ideas of what males and females should look like and how they should behave and divide the world up in this way. They then decide that because they like or do things for the opposite sex they therefore ARE the other sex. And everyone else sees the world in the same way. A bit like a baby who thinks cos they can't see an object, it no longs exists and that no one else can see it either.

He proposes that this goes as far as thinking that once they are 'presenting' as the opposite sex by these stereotypes they pass and because they haven't got the concept of the rest of the world thinking differently, they believe that everyone else sees them as the opposite sex simply because they've put on the corresponding clothing regardless of the other glaringly obvious clues to sex.

In their heads it IS all about them and what they think. If they think that putting on make up makes them look female then every one else will perceive them in the same way. Regardless of all the other things that mark their sex being obvious.

Its just about how they organise the world - so affirmation is probably just about the worst thing you can do, rather than unpick this and teach that things are not gendered. If this is all true, to affirm at all in a medical capacity isn't just irresponsible its actively grossly negligent and discriminatory.

The fact we have numerous posters who can not conceive that sex discrimination relates to biological function they don't have and will affect everything from the design of things to impact on everyday life rather than presentation and stereotypes, really really highlights the point. We've seen so many examples all saying and doing the same thing. Its fascinating to see in real world play outs.

We CAN NOT order the world along these lines because it doesn't reflect reality and how the world works - it only reflects the beliefs of people who can't see things from the perspective of others.

By definition this is about as far removed from being inclusive as it is possible to be.

Fab post. Thank you @RedToothBrush

Its just about how they organise the world - so affirmation is probably just about the worst thing you can do, rather than unpick this and teach that things are not gendered. If this is all true, to affirm at all in a medical capacity isn't just irresponsible its actively grossly negligent and discriminatory.

This is precisely why I fought very hard to get a safeguarding statement in to my daughter's EHCP (school) document and also why I refused mental health care under CAMHS for my daughter until they would agree to a) correct the misinformation in her notes from her hospital admission (they had said she "identified as a boy" even though they subsequently agreed that she never did) and b) agree to a discussion about the safeguarding statement. I did accept that CAMHS couldn't sign agreement to the statement, because that's against their own protocol, but equally I saw far more risk in her receiving mental health care when it would lead to an affirmation journey than I did in her not receiving the care. It's the most difficult decision I've ever had to face as a parent. She was at crisis point. Hospitalised 3 times in a month due to self-harming (mental health admission, not the physical impact) and also talking about suicide. But even then, I knew there was far more danger in her being put on an affirmation journey.
With a LOT of effort I was able to get medical backing for the statement. It's not a statement which pushes sex immutability as a truth. It's a statement which lays out the impact of being autistic and having confusion over gender identity, broken down by a series of needs and how these can be met. The number one item being about pronouns and the impact of asking her about what pronouns she'd like to use. The summary of that being that it is effectively like asking someone if they are happy with their body or would like to change that. In the context of being a girl with autism, who is struggling with the concept of breast development, periods and similar (and never really felt particularly "girly"), this simple question creates a signpost to identifying out of girlhood.

I'll definitely buy that book now. I follow the author on Twitter too, having been pointed in his direction by another Mumsnetter.

BonfireLady · 28/10/2023 14:53

Here's my pinned tweet which breaks down the conflation of autism and gender identity in adolescent autistic girls, in case it's of interest to anyone on this thread:

https://twitter.com/BonfireLady/status/1697126765687099612?t=mrBpKVr-jBhwysxTNb92Iw&s=19

Also, here's what I wrote about my and my daughter's experience with CAMHS. I've shared it before but not for a while. The only thing I didn't cover in it was the Subject Access Request that I raised when CAMHS weren't responding to me. It was incredibly frustrating that I had to hammer them with letters until they would engage in conversation, but once they did it went very positively. Not easy. Lots of difficult conversations, but positive. Even today, my daughter doesn't go to any new person in the CAMHS team until I've had a discussion directly with that clinician about safeguarding using our statement. Likewise any other health appointment and any youth group that she attends. I'm not taking any chances on her being pulled in to gender identity belief as an absolute truth. It's been very interesting just how many doors I am opening when I have these conversations, not just ones that will help her but ones that will help other autistic girls too. The ripple effect of the conversations has been great to see. There is more to be done of course (and more that I'm still doing).

https://www.transgendertrend.com/teenage-gender-identity-crisis/

https://twitter.com/BonfireLady/status/1697126765687099612?s=19&t=mrBpKVr-jBhwysxTNb92Iw

Zebracat · 02/05/2024 21:39

Gosh @BonfireLady , your communication skills are amazing, thank you so much for those links.

Badatmostthings · 02/05/2024 21:58

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page