Cultural competence vs humility - Anyone understand it?

[RethinkingLife]

I've been reading about cultural competence vs humility recently. Does anyone have any experience of it, please?

My context is healthcare but I'd appreciate a discussion in other sectors just to understand how cultural humility is implemented and the associated advantages/risks. Ditto, my strong interest is women's rights but other cases/examples are welcome.

https://www.betterup.com/blog/cultural-humility-vs-cultural-competence

First thing to note. Cultural humility rewards genuine curiosity in people from other cultures.
So how come it's a microagression to ask where someone is from?
Someone of Asian or African origin talks to you, or a white person with a foreign accent.
You've got to ask their origin before you can be culturally humble.
Yet we're told in no uncertain terms not to do so.
Me? I ignore all that shit, and go straight to an origins question as a way in to an empathetic and inclusive conversation.

You have no business asking this question. It’s none of your business. Doubly so if the person of colour is talking to you in a British accent.

You mean Lady Susan Hussey and Ngozi Fulani?

Asking this question of a search engine or Chat-GPT returns some comprehensive answers. The majority of those stress that the importance of context.

Why is asking where someone is from a microaggression?

I'm particularly interested in rehab and recovery services for substance use disorders. Specifically, whether the information about the services and the various treatment pathways reflects sex differences in the origins and history of substance use disorder (the literature seems to indicate this is influential but I can't find materials that reflect this).

Is this the same BetterUp whose its Chief Impact Officer is 'Prince Harry, The Duke of Sussex'? The same BetterUp that has a provider contract with one of the elements of Invictus?

For me, it depends on what I think the intention is. Eg a question like "Where did you grow up?" asked by someone who may be curious about me or have a potential common understanding - no problem.

"Where are you from?", so that they can then mentally categorise you based on a stereotype they have of Africans or Pakistanis or Irish people or Italians or whatever - not OK, as no one wants to be categorised like that.

I think I can usually tell what the intention was based on the follow up question and context - and whether it was appropriate to ask at that point in the conversation.

It is surely the second question you ask anyone you are getting to know for the first time, after What's your name?

I can tell when being asked that question the motives behind the question. It’s normally due to people trying to place my accent so I’m not asked when visiting my home area. The question about my heritage shouldn’t be asked until there is a relationship formed. I certainly don’t ask people where they are “really” from. I have an Irish partner but lived in Britain since a child no one ever wants to know his his non British ancestry.

I'm not sure what it is, but something about this article is odd to me. On the one hand it seems full of stuff that is self-evident, and then other bits are kind of incoherent.

What? No. How do you know the host, what do you do, are you here with your partner, did you see Bake Off last week…

“What is your ethnic origin” is a long long way down the list.

The group of people who say never to do this is actually quite tiny, IME, although seem happy to speak on behalf of others. The vast majority of people have no problem with it or even like it.

And certainly if you go off to many countries people in other cultures don't worry about committing microagressions by asking where you're from.

I didn't want to post an academic paper.

I'd be pleased to see better explanations in general literature, or in literature about substance use services, if anyone knows of any.

Firstly, I don't tend to meet people for the first time in situations where there is a "host" -
secondly I mostly meet people in work settings, so that question is redundant, and if it isn't in a work setting I'd never ask anyone what they do, in case they don't do anything,
thirdly I don't have a partner, wouldn't ask about partners and no one ever asks me, and I wouldn't expect them to,
and fourthly, no, I don't watch that, or anything really.

There is nothing wrong in asking where someone is from, everyone comes from somewhere, everyone has an answer to that question, totally normal question, as I say, the second question I would ask when getting to know someone for the first time, always has been, always will be. if someone chooses to take offense, that is their problem not mine.

Id take offense at your "partner" question

"Where are you from?" is a completely standard basic question in a context where people are known to be and expected to be from many countries. It's a basic conversation at universities, alongside the question about what you're studying/researching.

I suspect where it's mostly felt as a micro-aggression is in the context where people are broadly assumed to all be from the same place (UK), but one of them isn't, because of their appearance (other people's reading of their ethnic background). The follow-up 'but where are you /really/ from?" is more objectionable, since it's essentially rejecting the first answer as untrue and unacceptable.

But if you go to another country where either you stand out because of how you look, you're going to be asked this. Sometimes it happens that you've been living there a long time or have always lived there. That feeling of feeling noticed and being perceived as Other to the norm doesn't make the question in itself objectionable.

“Someone of Asian or African origin talks to you, or a white person with a foreign accent. You've got to ask their origin before you can be culturally humble.”

No you don’t. In fact that is being aggressive, the opposite of humble. The same with variations on the “where are you from?” Question such as

”Are you here on holiday?”
”What brings you to England/Wales/Scotland/UK?”
”How long have you been here?”
”How do you find/like it here?”

and my favourite during Covid was
”How did you get here? I thought airports were closed during lockdown?”

You have no business asking this question. It’s none of your business. Doubly so if the person of colour is talking to you in a British accent.

Hilarious nonsense.

I'm an immigrant who speaks with am excellent English accent. I am far from offended by the question. What's offensive is people assuming they know all about me/my heritage/my Britishness just from my answer.
What's not offensive is genuine interest.

I think it's ok to ask people where they are from if you're chatting to them and asking about each other.

So generally, no need to know everything about everyone's cultures, but be interested and respectful.

It's just the standard grievance gerbil nonsense.

It's the don't look at me but also don't not look at me bullshit that means you can never win.

It is completely normal human interaction to chat about where you are from. Being petrified of asking normal questions is what creates divisions. Don't fall for it.

Haha!

I've been an immigrant a few times in a few places. Weirdly, it seems that wherever newcomers are from, we all ask each other with no issues. If I am talking to someone, I normally wait until they ask me, but they generally do ask. And then go on to tell me which auntie/cousin/friend lives there. Then I ask and the same or if I've been there (I've been to a lot of places!) or if I'd like to.

I think because we all know that we're immigrants, it works.

I think anyone can see the difference between:

Where are you from? "Paris, how lovely, we have had so many weekends there." And, "Somalia, oh". These questions are homophones, they sound the same but aren't.

I'd have thought 'what do you do?' or 'are you here with your partner?' are equally problematic openers for some people, along with 'do you have kids?'

I mean, people aren't going to have the same response to totally different places? That doesn't imply they have a problem with the person.

Having read that article, my biggest issue is the "vs" part of the thread title. Why is it necessary to choose one method exclusively over another? I have a collection of tools that I use for conversations, mainly built up from various efforts trying to learn how best to engage with people as part of various groups/movements I'm involved with.

Humility to me sounds more like basic curiosity, finding the right questions to ask to gain an understanding of a person, and competence sounds like using existing knowledge that feels relevant from what I've learnt. I could call humility the process of discarding or modifying existing (competent) knowledge based on what I learned by being curious.

I'm suspicious of searching for a perfect method. Getting something wrong doesn't have to be the end of the world, I think sometimes it can actually help if I respond the right way. I think sometimes acknowledging a mistake, and showing willingness to listen and do better can enhance trust. I've seen difficult moments mellow very fast, almost instantly on occasions, from simply saying "sorry" unconditionally and then listening