Great article

[Coveescapee]

Yes I know its the daily fail. Is there any evidence that there are loads of people engaging in "coercive" conversion practices or is this just politicians again trying to make themselves look caring (while ignoring all the problems people actually care about). https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12651173/People-regret-transitioning-says-Debbie-Hayton.html

Excellent opinion piece. I long ago stopped apologising for quoting newspapers I used to hate! The Mail, Times and Telegraph are too traditionalist to jump on the trans bandwagon.

Yes that's true, can't stand the Guardian nowadays!

When, in 2018, Theresa May first mooted this legislation, her government said it wanted to end 'abhorrent conversion practices' including 'gay cures'. These ranged from 'pseudo-psychological treatments' to surgery and even 'corrective rape'.

Yeah, OP, I mean, corrective rape is obviously already totally illegal.

It's illegal to force people into therapy.

Psychotherapists have a professional body with standards (that don't allow for anything like "conversion therapy") and can lose their licence to practice for that kind of thing.

At the same time, sexuality is complex. People can have all kinds of experiences and problems related to what they see as current problems in their sexual life. Scientifically, we don't even know that sexual preference is set in stone, or what forms it, or whether it is the same set of things for everyone. And adults are entitled to their beliefs, especially about their own experiences.

The law isn't really the place to be defining that. Non-consensual and abusive treatments are already completely illegal.

Debbie sounds sensible. But I did wonder,

I was a happily married, middle-aged man with a good job and three wonderful children.

...and, presumably a wife? I wonder what happened to her?

Exactly @Rudderneck Recent govts have a bad record of bringing in not needed new laws whilst failing to enforce the ones already in place to be "seen to be doing something." In this case the law will actually make things worse as will
likely criminalise discussion of all the options. What a useless lot the tories are!

Yes no mention of wife, she's not important.

Hayton. Hmm. I used to think he sounded very reasonable too, but he still thinks some transwomen, especially DH himself, should have the right to compel others to call them 'her', and the right to use female facilities and force the girls and women not to complain. He wrote school policies on it.

If he's changed his mind on that, I'll have more respect for him.

Oh didn't know that, I know he's a science teacher of some kind so should have a grip on reality.

Happily married means a wife or a husband, presumably?

DH's wife was in the documentary made about them a few years back. I remember her saying they still shared a bedroom but not a bed and it all seemed very sad really.

I think I read DH saying that their daughter hadn't liked DH using the women's loos etc and so that was no longer what DH did.

'Transitioning from a Man to a Woman at 44 Years Old | Trans Kids: It's Time to Talk' with Stella O'Malley from 2018.

Thanks for the article link. I am going to add it to the existing thread about Sunak's change of mind.

Worth watching.

There was an interview with both of them where it came out that Hayton had told Dr Stephanie Hayton he’d leave if she wanted him to. But when it came down to it he refused, explaining to the interviewer that he liked pushing boundaries.

Not the exact phrasing but that was the gist.

Thanks for doing the proper link, @OldCrone

I have no idea why the Tories think putting this back on the table is a winner with their voters. Do they want to lose the election? Its baffling.

Well yes, but husbands don't tend to be much use for giving birth to three children.

Graham Linehan had Hayton on the Mess once. Also Miranda Yardley and Rose of Dawn iirc. Yet TRAs say he is a transphobic bigot. On the other hand some Radfems think he is a poor ally for entertaining them at all.

He is a big softy and I can't see him ever toeing any party line.

No, but in the general sense it could mean either.

It could. But this was specifically about Debbie Hayton, who has a wife.

Yes?

That was my point.

I wondered this too. Who is or are the influencer(s) who have pushed this through, presumably taking advantage of a likely small, but loudly testerical, backlash following Sunak’s statement about sex.

Wouldn't Sunak have to agree it? Mind you he does seem abit clueless.

This is one of a couple of strong articles in the Mail this week about transitioning and regret. (There is a thread on the other by a former Tavistock staff member.)

My interpretation is that the Mail fear that Sunak has been nobbled on “Conversion” and are sending him a message via their large but socially conservative readership.

I tend to raise my eyebrows when people say they never read the Mail or any other right of centre paper, as if this gives them some sort of intellectual or moral high ground. Ok today you need to past some endless Rebecca Loos headlines, I mean really is this the biggest story in the world today. But it is worth noting what people outside your bubble may be thinking, and it is always interesting when the Mail starts criticising the Tories. We seem to have a new establishment of liberal/illiberal thinkers sitting pretty in Labour, the LibDems or Greens (and indeed on the Christin Blunt wing of the Tories) or on that merry go round of BBC/charity/Oxford college jobs who enjoy a moral certainty that they are right and great chunks of the electorate are wrong. 60% of them electorate is unsure how to vote in the next election. None of the available parties are attracting voter loyalty. The Mail knows its large readership…that’s why it has a large readership. Agree or not agree, I don’t get why so many people think it is clever to ignore the views of others.

Yes we have a very arrogant set of people in this country characterised as "the elite" but covering alot more people (I see alot on mumsnet) who look down on the working class (see Brexit) and think they are right even though their ideas have caused alot of the problems in this country as they have most of the power. That is interesting about a message being sent via the Mail - do you think they will even read these articles and take on board?