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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Please review my letter

43 replies

Jammymare · 19/10/2023 12:48

Absolutely had enough at work (local authority) and being asked to complete stonewall survey has tipped me over the edge. Please can you wonderful people review my letter before I send it (or talk me down!)?

Dear Sirs,

Having recently been invited as an employee of XX to complete a Stonewall survey about LGBT+ (Lesbian, Gay, Bi and Trans) equality at XX and particularly by the following statement;

“We are proud to be a Stonewall Diversity Champion and are always looking for ways that we can make our organisation more inclusive for our employees, residents, visitors and partners.”

I felt compelled to write to you to suggest that XX’s membership of the Stonewall Diversity Champions scheme should be reviewed. I fully support the rights of transgender people, yet being associated with Stonewall lies in tension with one of the Council’s core behaviours of respect, respect for the rights of all employees, residents, visitors and partners, including women.

I believe that sex matters.

I believe that in our patriarchal society it is women’s sexed bodies and their role in sex and reproduction that play a major role in their oppression. Gender identity (the feeling of being a man or a woman regardless of one’s biological sex) can therefore never wholly replace sex as a protected characteristic in equalities law and women have the right to organise on the basis of their sex and to access single-sex spaces.

The belief that sex is biological and immutable, people cannot change their sex and that sex is distinct from gender-identity has been established in law as a philosophical belief protected from discrimination under section 10 of the Equality Act 2010 via numerous recent legal cases such as those bought by Maya Forestater, Alison Bailey and David Grainger. The case of Forstater v CGD Europe explicitly stated that Ms Forstater’s beliefs did not “seek to destroy the rights of trans persons”.

Nancy Kelley, CEO of Stonewall until Jul 2023, has likened these ‘gender critical’ beliefs to anti-Semitism. The motivation for this comparison is to justify Stonewall’s longstanding policy demanding ‘no debate’ on transgender issues.

In 2017, Stonewall declared a lobbying agenda for a radical change the in law to allow people to change their recognised sex through ‘a simple administrative process’. It has also called for changes to the Equality Act 2010 to remove the protected characteristic of ‘gender reassignment’, to replace it with ‘gender identity’ and to remove all instances of permitted discrimination (the ‘exceptions’) against trans-identified people.

Other views that Stonewall appears to regard as hateful include the belief that there should be restrictions on biological males competing in women’s sports, that lesbians can define their attraction as same-sex, not same-gender, and the high court’s view that children cannot meaningfully consent to taking puberty blockers.

The Reindorf Review for the University of Essex (published May 2021) found that policies reflecting Stonewall guidance were not in line with the Equality Act and contributed to an environment of fear for staff holding dissenting views about sex and gender.
In her review, Barrister Akua Reindorf writes “In my view the policy states the law as Stonewall would prefer it to be, rather than the law as it is”.

Two cabinet ministers for Woman and Equalities have now called for the withdrawal of government departments from Stonewall’s diversity champions scheme, including the current incumbent Kemi Badenoch.

High-profile public-sector bodies disassociated from Stonewall’s Diversity Champion programme, include the Equality and Human Rights Commission, the House of Commons, UCL, the University of Winchester the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency, ACAS (the employment dispute service) and Social Work England.

Stonewall is a lobby group which aims to achieve policy change and it is entitled to campaign towards this end. But it is inappropriate that such a group should be embedded within XX.

If members consider it appropriate to continue the relationship with Stonewall, there must be a strategy developed to counter drawbacks described above and ensure those who hold gender critical beliefs do not feel excluded, and are protected from discrimination or harassment.

OP posts:
Jammymare · 19/10/2023 16:29

Thank you all so much for your excellent suggestions. I have been for a long dog walk, had a cup of tea and have edited out the more inflammatory bits on gender critical beliefs.

@SoOpenitsbrainshavefallenout excellent links, thank you.👏
@BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn Have got it down to nearly one page of A4 definitely get your point about people not reading beyond the first few paragraphs. Re puberty blockers you'd have thought so but, we still have links to Mermaids on our intranet. Have taken it out anyway⭐
@Fandangled of course you can, I'll share any response I get here too.❤
@BookWorm45 I went with Dear Sirs as intending to send to Council lead member, our CEO and the lead for EDI. do you think i should address them individually? (also thought about sending to my MP) Have stolen your structuring - thank you.⭐
@MrsOvertonsWindow have included your link to the Nolan principles❤
@HagoftheNorth have added religious belief as a conflict👏
@WomenShouldStillWinWomensSports excellent point about not needing to explain ourselves exhaustively 👏
@TriplePoint noted 😁
OForGoodnessSake Not tagging you because I don't really care what you think, but in case you are following everyone is being strongly encouraged to complete this survey, and as someone who is a member of a minority purportedly represented by Stonewall it is very much something to do with me thank you very much!
@Beowulfa
@pronounsbundlebundle great points thank you 👏
@fedupandstuck @Tinysoxxx thanks both ❤

Second draft here;

Dear Sirs,

The recent distribution of the Stonewall survey and the accompanying statement that XX “are always looking for ways that we can make our organisation more inclusive for our employees, residents, visitors and partners” compels me to write to you.

Summary:

I am concerned about XX being a member of Stonewall Diversity Champions scheme. Whilst I fully support the rights of the LGBT+ community, I consider that for XX to associate themselves with Stonewall lies in tension with one of the Council's core behaviours of respect for the rights of all employees, residents, visitors and partners.

Proposed actions:

I suggest that XX's membership of the Stonewall Diversity Champions scheme should be reviewed.
If members determine it is appropriate to continue the relationship with Stonewall, there must be a strategy developed to counter drawbacks of this relationship and to ensure those who hold conflicting views on gender identity, whether through religious or philosophical beliefs, are not disadvantaged or excluded and are equally protected from discrimination or harassment.

Detail of my concerns about Stonewall:

Stonewall is a lobby group which aims to achieve policy change and it is entitled to campaign towards this end. But it is inappropriate that such a politicised group should be embedded within XX when as an organisation we are required under the Nolan principles to be politically impartial. (1)

Stonewall openly campaigns to eliminate women’s sex-based rights by advocating for a self-determination approach to gender recognition. (2) This agenda is in direct conflict to the protected characteristics of sex and some religious and philosophical beliefs under the Equality Act 2010.

The assumption the Stonewall represents all people within the LGBT+ community is also flawed. For example, the LGB alliance identifies conflict between the rights of lesbians and the demands of males who are self-identified “lesbians”.(3)

However, Stonewall does not recognise that lesbians can define their attraction as same-sex, not same-gender. Stonewall’s ex CEO, Nancy Kelley likened holding such ‘gender critical’ beliefs to anti-Semitism whilst in office. (4) The motivation for this comparison is to justify Stonewall’s longstanding policy demanding ‘no debate’ on transgender issues.

Barrister Akua Reindorf compiled a report for the University of Essex (published May 2021) and found that policies reflecting Stonewall guidance were not in line with the Equality Act and contributed to an environment of fear for staff holding dissenting views about sex and gender. (5)

Considering the history of Stonewall providing incorrect advice about the law they want to change, allowing Stonewall to unduly influence our EDI policies exposes us to both reputational risk and future legal action. (6)

Two cabinet ministers for Woman and Equalities have now called for the withdrawal of government departments from Stonewall’s diversity champions scheme, including the current incumbent Kemi Badenoch. (7)

High-profile public-sector bodies already withdrawn from Stonewall’s Diversity Champion programme include the Equality and Human Rights Commission, the House of Commons, UCL, the University of Winchester, the DVLA, the BBC, ACAS and Social Work England.

I would welcome further discussion and await your reply.

References:
(1) The Seven Principles of Public Life - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
(2) committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/17743/pdf/
(3) Resources - LGB Alliance UK (3) Resources - LGB Alliance UK
(4) https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/anger-grows-over-stonewall-boss-antisemitism-comment-1.517532
(5) Reindorf Report - Sex Matters .docx (sex-matters.org)
(6) https://sex-matters.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Sex-Matters-Understanding-Stonewall-Risk-080721-FINAL.pdf
(7) Kemi Badenoch guns for Stonewall – and the charity sector | The Spectator

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/anger-grows-over-stonewall-boss-antisemitism-comment-1.517532

OP posts:
SoOpenitsbrainshavefallenout · 19/10/2023 16:38

Wow, Even better than the first one

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 19/10/2023 16:41

Yes - that's much snappier.

vegetation · 19/10/2023 16:45

The second draft is excellent, great work. I hope you don't mind me nitpicking a couple of typos: "LGB alliance" should be "LGB Alliance" and "ex CEO" should be "ex-CEO".

GreigeO · 19/10/2023 16:49

That second draft is excellent

Noshowlomo · 19/10/2023 16:58

BRILLIANT. Copying. Also work for a council who are balls deep in Stonewall, constant Stonewall survey requests. Maybe it’s the same one… Wales?

GreenUp · 19/10/2023 17:01

Good letter.

I wonder if in the proposed actions, you could request that if your workplace is persisting with Stonewall, then they must also offer equal representation to gender critical employees by signing up for corporate membership to Sex Matters or by inviting LGB Alliance to offer some training?

MargotBamborough · 19/10/2023 17:13

OForGoodnessSake · 19/10/2023 13:53

..or perhaps don't complete the survey, and have a calming cup of tea instead?

Surveys are optional. Leave it for those who do not have gender critical beliefs and keep your blood pressure at a healthy level.

Your LA employer's membership of the Stonewall scheme is nothing to do with you. You are not a minority needing representation, awareness and understanding. If you feel discriminated against by an organisation committing itself to listen to a minority that does not include you, then perhaps the organisation may not be the one at fault.

Just sayin'.

Would you say the same thing about trans women feeling discriminated against by feminism not including them, out of interest?

Tinysoxxx · 19/10/2023 17:35

I may want to put something in about the original LGB of Stonewall being less emphasised and the LGB Alliance being created.

enchantedsquirrelwood · 19/10/2023 18:27

What a great example of cooperation and help on this thread (other than one post). MN at its best.

pronounsbundlebundle · 19/10/2023 18:49

The old letter was good but the new one is better - much more punchy. Good work @Jammymare

Does your employer know you belong to one of the minority groups Stonewall purports to represent? If so, you could say that 'as a X member of staff' you find Stonewall the opposite of inclusive and that as far as you are concerned they do not represent you. Up to you though, obviously. That makes it more personal, but possibly more difficult to ignore, if you're essentially saying that receiving this is actually exclusionary to you as a member of the group it's supposed to include.

I bet there aren't questionnaires about all the other pcs are there? Is there a religion one (or one for each religion maybe), disability, race?

BookWorm45 · 19/10/2023 19:17

Well done @Jammymare and this has been a great thread, lots of people working well together.

I still am not very keen on the "Dear Sirs" though ........ if you know the names of the people you are writing to, could you use their name / job role, such as :

To:
Fred Bloggs, Council lead member
Joanna Smith, CEO
Jon Jones, lead for EDI.

BonfireLady · 20/10/2023 05:45

What a great thread!

The opening letter was good, the advice and input was amazing, the resultant re-write was FAB!

Incidentally I'm totally with you on the patriarchy eyeroll issue @TriplePoint Unfortunately it seems to have the impact of rendering anything that's said on either side of it as the witterings of a hysterical female. Sadly it's a bit of a headlock that the patriarchy has put us in 😁

Catsanfan · 20/10/2023 06:16

You are my hero. Or, as my tweens would say; yasssss queen!

mushti · 21/10/2023 04:04

"current incumbent" is tautologous.

FarEast · 21/10/2023 07:21

Great letter, but …

it’s long - do you expect people unsympathetic to read a long letter? Most business advice is that one dude of A4 is the maximum someone being lobbied will read

But mainly - what do you want the recipient to DO? The outcome you are seeking should be first and then the things you cite are evidence in favour of your suggested action.

FarEast · 21/10/2023 08:52

Ooops sorry, should have RTFT. But I still think you should start the letter with a single simple sentence about your organisation reviewing its membership of Stonewall. It’s a bit buried in the 2nd paragraph and I suggest it needs to be simple clear and direct.

SarkyMummy · 01/03/2024 11:24

@Jammymare I’ve just seen this thread, as a fellow local gov employee would love to know how you got on, as I have very similar frustrations to you. Did you send your brilliant letter?

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