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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
HagoftheNorth · 11/10/2023 20:37

i don’t have a LinkedIn account, so I can’t see most of the comments. Interestingly, the two I can see are both saying that talking about this subject is harming trans people; and they don’t have to protect ‘transphobic’ (implicitly GC) views - perhaps those hr professionals might want to check their legal responsibilities - as Tanya highlighted in her piece

HagoftheNorth · 11/10/2023 20:37

Thankyou for highlighting MaybeDoctor, it is good to see

MaybeDoctor · 11/10/2023 20:42

Consider liking it if you are on the platform!

A lot of very sensible comments agreeing with her and thanking her for the post!

OP posts:
MissDiagnosed · 11/10/2023 20:52

Much much more support than otherwise and she reports, with surprise, that her post has 10k+ views. Careful, sensible and balanced.

And someone in the comments has posted about the capturing of the NHS, I'm pleased to see...

RethinkingLife · 11/10/2023 20:53

That is a good piece and it shouldn't take so much courage to ask the sensible questions that have been appearing on FWR for years.

I've just seen her note in the comments asking LI moderators to leave the post up.

Should we start a countdown.

AutumnCrow · 11/10/2023 21:13

In her comments she queries the effects on HR staff of the officially sanctioned campaign & slogan around 'Bring Your Whole Self To Work'.

I know it has been discussed frequently on here. Bring what to work, exactly?

She's careful, she's diplomatic, and she's of course right.

MaybeDoctor · 11/10/2023 21:27

Bumping up again for the post-bedtime crowd

OP posts:
QueenOfThorns · 11/10/2023 21:28

I’ve just read the whole comment thread and there’s some really good discussion there. The occasional person who pops up to argue against the general consensus (easy to spot because they all have their pronouns proudly displayed) is coming across as fanatical. They claim to be DEI professionals (I assume this is diversity, equality and inclusion?), but don’t seem to comprehend how exclusionary their viewpoint is. I don’t understand how their brains deal with the level of cognitive dissonance needed to take this position Confused

QueenOfThorns · 11/10/2023 21:31

I particularly liked this point from one of the comments, which sums the whole situation up pretty nicely:
How do we all get along together professionally at work with our colleagues even if we hold different political opinions, sexual orientation, or religious beliefs.? We do it by respecting each other. What is unique about gender ideology is that it insists we share its beliefs, adopt its language, and labels us “bigots” if we don’t.

RethinkingLife · 11/10/2023 21:38

A fair number of people claim to be DEI consultants or audit types. Judging by their comments, they are judge, jury, and punitive diverter of unbelievers to a gulag for education.

I wish I could pdf this but it doesn't seem possible.

MaybeDoctor · 11/10/2023 21:38

100 likes now

OP posts:
lordloveadog · 11/10/2023 21:57

What a very sensible post!

wincarwoo · 11/10/2023 21:59

Thanks for signposting that. Now following her

PaterPower · 11/10/2023 22:23

The problem is it’s on LinkedIn and there’s no way I’d risk a future HR trawl of my activity on there.

So, although I’d really like to ‘like’ some of the comments, and the original post, I’m just not able to.

Which neatly proves her point.

RethinkingLife · 11/10/2023 22:32

Had anyone come across the barrister who is in the comments before? Gerard Clarke?

Tanya de G has noticed the link from MN. (11 mins ago.)

GraduateFog · 11/10/2023 22:36

Oh WOW - thank you for linking to my LinkedIn post! And for all the lovely support! I run my own business so publishing this was a little bit risky... but I firmly believe that what I said needs to be said! It has also been interesting to hear your views on how the DEI (diversity, equity and inclusion) people in the thread are coming across... Oh dear, 'fanatical' is not a good review! Please believe that a lot of good has been done in the name of DEI... but I wrote this post because I fear things are veering badly off course - particularly around the issue of trans inclusion... and I am not seeing any of the leaders grabbing the wheel! Instead, everyone is just watching it happen... So hey, I thought I'd grab the wheel! Thank you again to everyone who has read the post and/or left a nice comment here, I really do appreciate it!😊Tanya de G x

JustPretend · 11/10/2023 22:49

LinkedIn is the one place I have felt utterly unable to hold GC views. Your post seems to have drawn out a lot of people who just want to feel safe with their legally protected and biologically correct beliefs.

👏 👏 👏

RethinkingLife · 11/10/2023 22:54

@GraduateFog You've politely persevered in highlighting our modern version of Havel's greengrocer.

In an era when metaphysical and existential certainties are in a state of crisis, when people are being uprooted and alienated and are losing their sense of what this world means, this ideology inevitably has a certain hypnotic charm. To wandering humankind it offers an immediately available home: all one has to do is accept it, and suddenly everything becomes clear once more, life takes on new meaning, and all mysteries, unanswered questions, anxiety, and loneliness vanish. Of course, one pays dearly for this low-rent home: the price is abdication of one’ s own reason, conscience, and responsibility, for an essential aspect of this ideology is the consignment of reason and conscience to a higher authority.

https://hac.bard.edu/amor-mundi/the-power-of-the-powerless-vaclav-havel-2011-12-23

The anecdote of the grocer and the window signs is chilling and still relevant.

The manager of a fruit-and-vegetable shop places in his window, among the onions and carrots, the slogan: "Workers of the world, unite!" Why does he do it? What is he trying to communicate to the world? Is he genuinely enthusiastic about the idea of unity among the workers of the world? Is his enthusiasm so great that he feels an irrepressible impulse to acquaint the public with his ideals? Has he really given more than a moment's thought to how such a unification might occur and what it would mean?

I think it can safely be assumed that the overwhelming majority of shopkeepers never think about the slogans they put in their windows, nor do they use them to express their real opinions. That poster was delivered to our greengrocer from the enterprise headquarters along with the onions and carrots. He put them all into the window simply because it has been done that way for years, because everyone does it, and because that is the way it has to be. If he were to refuse, there could be trouble. He could be reproached for not having the proper decoration in his window; someone might even accuse him of disloyalty. He does it because these things must be done if one is to get along in life. It is one of the thousands of details that guarantee him a relatively tranquil life "in harmony with society," as they say.

Obviously the greengrocer is indifferent to the semantic content of the slogan on exhibit; he does not put the slogan in his window from any personal desire to acquaint the public with the ideal it expresses. This, of course, does not mean that his action has no motive or significance at all, or that the slogan communicates nothing to anyone. The slogan is really a sign, and as such it contains a subliminal but very definite message. Verbally, it might be expressed this way: "I, the greengrocer XY, live here and I know what I must do. I behave in the manner expected of me. I can be depended upon and am beyond reproach. I am obedient and therefore I have the right to be left in peace." This message, of course, has an addressee: it is directed above, to the greengrocer's superior, and at the same time it is a shield that protects the greengrocer from potential informers. The slogan's real meaning, therefore, is rooted firmly in the greengrocer's existence. It reflects his vital interests. But what are those vital interests?

Let us take note: if the greengrocer had been instructed to display the slogan "I am afraid and therefore unquestioningly obedient;' he would not be nearly as indifferent to its semantics, even though the statement would reflect the truth.

"The Power of the Powerless" - Vaclav Havel

Hannah Arendt Center News

https://hac.bard.edu/amor-mundi/the-power-of-the-powerless-vaclav-havel-2011-12-23

CraggyIslandTouristBoard · 11/10/2023 23:00

Fantastic post, I shared it and posted a reply earlier on LinkedIn. Thank you @GraduateFog.

Absolutelymassesofcourgettes · 11/10/2023 23:05

@GraduateFog I would also be utterly terrified of liking your post due to potential professional repercussions. I don't work in HR but if I was brave enough to comment on LinkedIn I'd ask you to what extent do you believe the situation of gender ideology prevailing throughout DEI policy in corporate HR has been driven by the outsourcing of "tricky subjects" such as inclusion to third parties which have their own bias? This seems to have happened to an extent in schools around PSE, and similarly in government institutions such as the NHS. My observation is that HR departments increasingly don't form their own view, they outsource it. In your experience was this always the case or did the "policy outsourcing" really kick off with the Equalties Act, or maybe later?

Thank you very much for being brave enough to post this. There are so many more people like me who are afraid to show their appreciation openly.

Rudderneck · 11/10/2023 23:08

QueenOfThorns · 11/10/2023 21:28

I’ve just read the whole comment thread and there’s some really good discussion there. The occasional person who pops up to argue against the general consensus (easy to spot because they all have their pronouns proudly displayed) is coming across as fanatical. They claim to be DEI professionals (I assume this is diversity, equality and inclusion?), but don’t seem to comprehend how exclusionary their viewpoint is. I don’t understand how their brains deal with the level of cognitive dissonance needed to take this position Confused

It's a feature, not a bug.

Ibram X Kendi, the darling of the DEI crowd, has said explicitly that the “The only remedy to racist discrimination is antiracist discrimination. The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination. The only remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination.”

This is what the whole project is about, how to discriminate against non-believers.

GraduateFog · 11/10/2023 23:19

This reply has been hidden

This reply has been hidden until the MNHQ team can have a look at it.

Grimchmas · 11/10/2023 23:51

Crikey what did graduatefog say that was so offensive?

Rudderneck · 12/10/2023 00:09

Maybe used a no-no word? I can't imagine it was anything very egregious!

GraduateFog · 12/10/2023 01:14

I wrote a thoughtful and detailed reply, with delightful language I promise! But I also included 2 links, one to Twitter and one to a story on my own website, Graduate Fog. I'm assuming external links need to be moderated?