School toilet help

[SwimmingCait]

Over the summer break, all the toilets at DSs (secondary) school are now mixed sex. They are floor to ceiling cubicles but the wash basins are not inside but are in a shared area outside. He (and several of his friends) dislikes this and wants to raise it with the head teacher.

I know regulations exist about single sex facilities for over 8s and the standards any mixed sex toilets must reach, including enclosed wash basins. But, I've got a bug and feel horrendous today and I just can't find them.

Can anyone link me to the relevant legislation. (Is it building regs we need? Some DfE guidance? Something else entirely?)

Many thanks. He's asked about 6 times this weekend so I just want to find the legislation so he can e-mail the head and stop asking me!

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4800794-school-toilets

This thread might have the info.

Or this one...
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4915345-school-toilet-help

Inebriati (sp? Sorry)

Posted this link:
https://www.sec-ed.co.uk/content/best-practice/school-toilets-guidance-and-regulations/

FFS I've linked your own thread!

Sorry. Not paying attention! That'll confuse people.

I am not sure those guidelines will help your ds. They are first only guidance but also say that along as the cubicles offer appropriate privacy then sharing wash basics is not an issue.

This is the same layout as my sons' new build secondary school.
I am concerned for the privacy of teenage girls managing their period. The head teacher says there are single sex facilities in another building which is quite literally an inconvenience.
I suppose a small pack of wet wipes could be used to remove blood from hands as long as the rustling & unwrapping doesn't make them feel more self conscious than usual.

There's specific schools guidance.

They are floor to ceiling cubicles but the wash basins are not inside but are in a shared area outside.

They're in breach of guidance. The guidance very clearly says that sinks must be in the cubicle.

https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/schools-guidance/

OP, I'm sorry I don't have a link to the guidance.

Just wanted to say that your DS is not alone. DD rejected our chosen secondary on the basis of the toilet setup you describe. She'd used them for a couple of days during a holiday club and she was adamant at 11 yo that they did not offer enough privacy. She's even more against them at 14.

ArabellaScott
I am not certian that the guidance does say that.
My understanding is that toilets should full floor to ceiling doors. The handbasin should be nearby. I can't see where it says that the wash basin must be in the cubicle. Can you link to where it says this specifically?

If every cubicle is mixed sex, then every cubicle should have a sanitary bin. I doubt the school would want the cost or faff. You could come at it from that angle.

Floor to ceiling is surely a very bad idea. Kids will have sex / collapse in ill health eg a seizure. How can you do a fire check? Has this guidance been checked against hse legislation?

Having blood on your hands when you wash them is really a made up thing. I have never seen it and can’t imagine it ever happening. Just wipe it off with loo roll - it would be unhygienic not to - before flushing and opening the door.
If a girl is embarrassed by the rustling of wrappers, that is not the fault of the hypothetical person in the cubicle next to them, it’s her own problem.

In your experience of course.

Blood on hands is a very real thing in my experience with tampons and mooncups. It is sticky and although you can get some of it off with tissue in my experience there is usually still visible blood.

It is interesting that girls feelings of embarrassment or discomfort due to lack of privacy from the opposite sex are their problems but male feelings of being left out of female spaces or not being “validated” when using boys toilets are also girls problems. 🤔

I tried in vain to get my daughter’s school to see sense before they did this over the summer.

They haven’t done a risk assessment. They are relying on the architect’s judgement that this is ok.

They have interpreted the schools guidance, which isn’t clear enough now that the world has gone mad, as saying this is ok. I don’t believe that’s the intention of the guidance at all.

its shit, but my daughter hasn’t complained about it to me yet, and I don’t want to set her against using them.

You seem to be unaware that blood stains. You also seem to be completely unaware that teenage girls are already highly embarrassed about their periods in the girls' toilets, they'd be fucking mortified in unisex toilets! Not to mention the risk of sexual assault FFS! You've got to be a bloke no woman can be that ignorant!

Have you ever had a period?

If a man who identifies as a woman wants to use women to validate them that's their problem.
Actual periods are womens problems.

Arabellascott
Could you please show me where it says the washbasin must be inside the cubicle. I can't find that in any of the guidance.

'ISS Regulation 23A — (1) Subject to sub-paragraph (2), the standard in this paragraph is met if the proprietor ensures that— a) suitable toilet and washing facilities are provided for the sole use of pupils; b) separate toilet facilities for boys and girls aged 8 years or over are provided except where the toilet facility is provided in a room that can be secured from the inside and that is intended for use by one pupil at a time; '

That’s where it’s not clear. Part a has suitable toilet and washing facilities, but part b only mentions toilet facilities. There’s another bit later in the guidance that is similarly unclear.

That seems to say fairly clearly that it is the toilet facilities that must be separate and that this can be where there are separate individual cubicles. It does not say that the wash basins must be inside the cubicles at all.

Approved types of toilets are single occupancy or single sex.
Single occupancy toilets are a self contained cubicle off a corridor, with the sink inside the cubicle.

Toilet and washing facilities

4 (2) Separate toilet facilities for boys and girls aged 8 years or over must be provided except where the toilet facility is provided in a room that can be secured from the inside and that is intended for use by one pupil at a time.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/1943/regulation/4/made

Girls toilets should not include urinals, and a cubicles used by girls over 8 must contain a sanitary waste bin.Unfortunately the official info is not free to access, but there are several reasonably comprehensive guides online. This one has the links including an archived guide for schools;

https://www.school-toilets.co.uk/content/school-toilet-regulations-guide

Someone's having difficulty with the concept of dignity and privacy for women...