Women’s pain relief to boost the NHS environmental credentials

[crumpet]

What are men being asked to contribute in terms of their pain relief I wonder?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12605737/Women-childbirth-urged-swap-gas-air-water-injections-save-PLANET.html

The NHS generates so much waste and reducing is a brilliant thing, but is it really the gas and air they need to focus on?

It’s odd.

I chose not to have an epidural because of the risk of side effects, some of which can be pretty awful. Isn't this risking the same sort of thing as they inject water into four points along the spine?

Surely if it was effective they would have already been doing this.

I’m a midwife. The injections can help with back pain in labour. But not the abdominal contraction pain which is the main issue for 99.9% of women. Bonkers.

No, the water goes just under the skin. So it’s in the back but not actually near the spine.

Thank you VisaWoes, that's good to know at least!

If only it were possible to use gas and air for pain relief but prevent the greenhouse gas nitrous oxide from being released to the atmosphere.

Oh look, it is!
https://www.newcastle-hospitals.nhs.uk/news/newcastle-hospitals-become-first-in-the-uk-to-use-climate-friendly-gas-and-air-during-labour/

The issue is more complex than environmental concerns. There are also potential risks to healthcare staff: https://www.bmj.com/content/380/bmj.p212

Gas and air also gives women control, as you are completely choosing yourself when to take and use it. I found it really helpful.

I mean, it beats a comb, I guess...

I'm guessing the water injections are also substantially cheaper as well.

In the article it implied it would Only help with back pain...it was a while ago since I last gave birth but I seem to remember that wasn't where a lot of the pain was.
Or am I being thick again somehow?

Just another stick to beat women with.

The risk to staff is also addressed by collecting and breaking down the exhaled gas. As the article linked above says:
The MDU purifies 99.6% of the nitrous oxide entering the unit and as well having a huge benefit to the environment it also benefits staff by reducing the amount of nitrous oxide they are exposed to while they work.

It wasn't long ago that they were saying women should stop having gas and air because of health and safety concerns about midwives and over expose being toxic.

Now this.

No where else is pain relief politicised or guilt trips brought in.

Yes this. Adequate ventilation, filtration , air changes, etc are desperately needed in all hospitals to improve patient and staff safety. It comes back to investment in the nhs though, which isn’t happening in the focused way needed.

Why is it ok to breathe it yourself for 6 hours of labour x 4 but not to be a midwife standing nearby who might inhale some gradually over a 20 year career? Are those amounts really more than someone actively using it over a numbe rof childbirths, as I did. I don't really anyone suggesting, by birth 4, that I had had enough and shouldn't have anymore, even though the last 2 were actually at the hospital that has now apparently withdrawn it and offered the comb!

Are people involved in accidents now also not given it by paramedics at the roadside where it even more directly can escape into the atmosphere?

I though the health effects were similar to huffing NOS that the youthbwent through a phase of doin, it out competes oxygen so can cause breathing difficulties and oxygen starvation, hence why they add oxygen to it in hospitals to form entonox. What are the long term risks to staff? What about operating theatre staff, I have had 2 colonoscopies and used gas and air each time, nobody seemed concerned.

@AIstolemylunch because most women only give birth 2 or 3 times.

Personally I didn't use it though, I didn't use pain relief because it simply wasn't that bad, I'm no martyr! I've had far worse toothache (impacted wisdom tooth May 2020, couldn't get it out until early 2021, that was true pain! Months of it

I don’t think it’s acceptable to use it if there’s any risk to staff.

If there's issues with it and risk to staff by all means remove it IF there is a replacement option of equally good and entirely adequate pain relief for the patients. We've been using gas and air for decades, staff are not dropping like flies, and it's not ok to leave women in severe pain untreated.

We're already knee deep in women traumatised from horrible medical birth experiences, and women with inadequate pain management not being taken seriously, or expected with an hours' old major abdominal surgery to get out of bed and look after a newborn on a couple of paracetamol.

As RedToothBrush said: where else (or where with men) do you ever see pain politicised and guilt trips piled on?

Both my labours were entirely back pain, because I had two back to backs (joy). I had an epidural both times because of it, and fortunately was seen very quickly by the anaesthetist. I also had the option of gas and air because the hospital I was at is properly ventilated.

The NHS has known about the long term risks to staff for decades and still haven't bothered to invest in the proper systems to deal with it. It seems they value maternity nurses and midwives about as much as labouring mothers.

It's yet another example of women's pain being seen as an inconvenience rather than adequately respected and treated.

What is the risk? What has happened to staff exposed long term? Does anyone know a midwife with a health issue related to entonox exposure?

This is a helpful article: https://www.newstatesman.com/quickfire/2023/03/gas-air-maternity-scandal

Maternity healthcare staff are predominantly women as well and their health matters.

The solution for both sides is investment in the NHS to put in the ventilation systems that help to decrease exposure.

Asking a bunch of randoms on t'internet if they personally know anyone affected isn't going to get you a useful answer. I don't personally know anyone affected by lung cancer due to asbestos exposure or by radiation exposure. Does that mean those aren't genuine environmental hazards?

Neurological damage from prolonged B12 exposure is well-evidenced and well-recognised. It's important that we consider the welfare of midwives, as well as women in labour.

However, as PPs have said, there are effective ways of reducing the risk and we should be prioritising those, not expecting labouring women to go without pain relief. If gas-and-air cannot be given safely, we need to provide safe alternatives e.g. patient-controlled analgesia via an IV.

prolonged exposure causing B12 deficiency

A lot of posters on this and similar threads are midwives, several on this have said they are. So not randoms. I'm curious to know how widespread a problem it is in NHS hospitals. I suspect not very. And easily adapted for and treated with B12 therapy presumably. I've worked in labs exposed to radiation and formaldehyde, both way more dangerous, and nobody was saying we shouldn't use it, we just had to take appropriate precautions. So why is it different here? Oh I know, because it's only women's pain that will be affected.