Look at these Bostom Marathon qualifying times.

[Softnatural]

Qualifying for Boston is a really big deal. What's the point?

So it's just easier for people with penises or get a place. Not easier for them to get a place and a prize. Small mercies.

At least they allow women to run now. Smaller mercies.

Presumably trans women run in the women's category rather than the non binary category too? So the women's category isn't protected by having the non binary category?

That's what I was trying to ask earlier.

I wonder how many men might decide to identify non binary in order to get a qualifying GFA time?

Qualifying for Boston is a big thing for a lot of amateur marathon runners, there are no fun runners. Many people train hard for years to get that coveted GFA time to allow them to enter Boston.

It basically gives men twice as many shots at getting a place to run Boston than women have.

What's going to happen is that men will start to realise they'll have a better chance of getting a place in the NB category and it will be swamped with male entries pushing out females. So there will be two male categories. One for elite runners with integrity and one for mediocre cheating males.

It basically gives men twice as many shots at getting a place to run Boston than women have.

It's plausibly more than that by virtue of exceeding a NB woman's likely qualifying time. I'd expect male NBs (so to speak) to take at least two-thirds (and probably more) of the NB class by qualifying time.

We might not have race officials feeling the need to run on the course and try to take women off it but a similar need will be served by this except for the ultra elite women (and I wonder how long that will survive if men decide that they can dominate that as well).

How is ‘non binary’ a sanctuary amidst ‘anti-trans legislation’? Surely the whole point of non binary- ness is a rejection of identifying as either one of the two sexes ( shelving in this instance all the other ‘genders ‘ which have been mooted ) ? Whereas TW and TM identify and must be accepted as men or women , very definitely, hence TWAW & TMAM. So that is the polar opposite of being non binary.

The kitten has got into the wool basket again.

I know men who would tick the NB box just for fun with no intention ion of being or even pretending to be NB, just because why wouldn't you of it gives you a better chance at a place? They're not entering the race to win it anyway.

I asked Mr Monkey about this as he has, after years of hard work and training, finally got a good for age qualifying time for Boston this year.

He was outraged and said he would regard any non binary person of the male sex using the same qualfication time as a woman as a cheat.

But they're not cheating within the rules of the competition...

Yeah ... but morally.

We know age and sex has an impact on running performance. A man thinking his gender identity is feminine does not.

I'm really cross about non binary qualifying times.

I know it doesn't guarantee a place but basically it means many men of an age who wouldn't qualify to get in, because they're too slow for their age and sex, can get in anyway based on female qualifying times. A sort of race permitted cheating, although I don't know if it means women are disadvantaged over all.

No comparable second chance for women - I'd have a qualifying time for these special marathons if I was given an extra 30 mins...

Exactly @Boomboomboomboom . If Mr Monkey identified as a non binary man he would have got a GFA qualifying time four years ago. Four years less running, training, and hard hard work.

I do wonder if it'll disappear in due course because ultimately everyone is either male or female however they identify.

Frustrating though that it only benefits one type (sex) of non binary whereas at least male and female good for age genuinely recognise the difference between the sexes.

No comparable second chance for women - I'd have a qualifying time for these special marathons if I was given an extra 30 mins...

And it doesn't work for anything else. I feel 90 when I run, and would win that group, but that;s not allowed. Why? It's just as logical.

*A sort of race permitted cheating, although I don't know if it means women are disadvantaged over all.

No comparable second chance for women - I'd have a qualifying time for these special marathons if I was given an extra 30 mins...*

You've just answered for yourself: of course it means women are disadvantaged over all. Mediocre men are being invited to take able women's places.

Males can win every category, can't they?

Obviously in the male category, if good enough. We know males have won the NB category.

And provided they have ID marked 'female' - and AFAIK all US citizens can get a driving licence with a gender marker of their choice - and have recorded the female qualifying time in a qualifying race than allows them to compete in the female category, they can compete as females at Boston. A fairly good male runner will undoubtedly beat the elite female runners one year

From the rules:

"3.6. TRANSGENDER ATHLETES
3.6.1. Applicants must qualify in the gender category for which they intend to
participate on the date of the Boston Marathon.
3.6.2. Participants will appear in race results as the gender they qualified in their qualifying race
3.6.2.1. A participant cannot qualify as a male and participate and be ranked
in the race as a female or qualify as a female and participate and be
ranked in the race as a male.
3.6.3. To be eligible for prize money or non-financial awards, such as an age group award, transgender athletes must meet the eligibility criteria as defined by the World Athletics Book of Rules C3.5."