England hockey threatening women’s team with points deductions

[Theeyeballsinthesky]

It seems that women’s hockey teams in England are being threatened with points deductions if they withdraw players due to safety because the other side is fielding a TW. Sides are using TW to do drag flicks which given they’re men are much harder and faster than those done by women.

teams have been told if they come off the pitch due to concerns for their safety, they will be deducted points.

It's so unfair. No one should be expected to compromise their safety like that. I can't believe what's happening these days.

Here's a reminder of what the players could do rather than allow their places to be handed over to men. Strength in numbers :

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4914166-us-university-female-swim-team-unanimously-reject-transgender-swimmer

Women being punished for having concerns about their safety. Again.

As mixed hockey already exists I imagine it’s already covered by EH’s insurance.

I think the players, on the trans person's team and on the opposing teams, should refuse to play (like the angling team). And when they're told that they'll be penalised, they should respond, "Well, we think sportsmanship is more important than victory. Don't you agree?" Then pause and wait for an answer.

Yeah I played hockey at school loved it but it’s a vicious game. One girl got hit in the mouth and had to go for emergency dental /orthodontist treatment and was wearing braces for years

Insurers don't enforce safety rules. They will only get get involved when someone gets killed. Which is what is sadly going to happen. And then it will be a big hoo-ha. And too bloody late.

I know they can't enforce rules, but they can refuse to insure or increase the premiums for a policy that is more likely to have to pay out.

I was wondering they will have voided their insurance if they have men in women's teams but the insurer thinks the teams are single sex. I don't know policy details or how they are underwritten, it was just a thought.

If the clubs have insurance already which covers the legit mixed sex teams as bccoach says, it sounds like I'm barking up the wrong tree.

mixed sex hockey is a clearly defined form of the game though with its own rules

it’s very different to - these are 2 teams of women playing each other it’s just that one team has 3 men in it plus if you sign up to play mixed hockey you know by definition it’s mixed. If you sign up to play women’s hockey & men are playing, that’s not the same.

the umpires are very unhappy about it but are in the same position of being told that they need to be inclusive

I posted about this on another forum last season. I was crying with rage after a match and needed to get it off my chest.

I play mixed and women’s field hockey. One women’s game last season a 6ft man played in an opposing team. He had half a ton of makeup on, wing liner, foundation the lot!

In over 40 years years of playing hockey, I have never seen a woman wear that much makeup while playing. In fact it’s rare for anyone to wear any makeup.

This player was tall and very aggressive, he was warned several times. We have small 14/15 year old girls in our team. He could have very seriously hurt one of them.

In the second half we had an incident and our sticks got entangled, normally you and the opposing player just smile, shrug and untangle sticks. But no, not this time, I was already raging as he’s hurt little girls in my team so didn’t drop my stick, neither did he.

We went face to face, in my head I was daring him to hit me. The umpire came over just in time and we both got a warning.

Afterwards I was saying “That was a man! That was a man!!” Cue terrified looks “Shhhh you can’t say that!!”

WHY!! WHY CAN’T I SAY THAT!????

In the end I began doubting he was a man! But I KNOW what a man looks like. It WAS a man! But even now I slightly doubt myself.

Anyway came back and posted on the other forum where I found out that English hockey doesn’t give a shit about girls and women’s safety!

Hockey season has started again. I’m dreading seeing this man. I will not play this time. If he’s there.

Daily Mail please do an article. Young girls are going to get seriously hurt this is awful!! Please!

I know a TIM who has been playing women's hockey for years now. Also coaches for England Hockey. Claims that no-one knows he is male. Withing the first couple of months postbhis surgery he broke some girls poor shin bone.

@TeiTetua why would the players on the trans player’s team refuse to play?? They’ve specifically fielded a male to increase their chances of winning!

Im so sorry @ColdEvenings 💐

DH is very involved in hockey & his view is that because hockey has a high number of LGB players, the hockey governing bodies were very eager to see trans as exactly the same. Plus people like Jamie Hooper a hockey umpire who worked at swim England and was responsible for their trans guidance which ended up being withdrawn as too dangerous for women were very influential as well

Do you think players pick the players?

Thanks theeye

Interesting your dh says there is a lot of LGB players. I would assume it's mainly lesbians from that "community" that play, and would be surprised if they're happy about men playin g in our teams.

Sadly we have a very young teenage lesbian in our team. Who is now wanting to be called "Roger". I'm pretty sure she's binding her breasts. I've given her poor mum some really good links I've found from on here.

I want to shake "Roger" and say "If you're male why are you playing on a women's team? Go play with the men!! See how male you are then!!"

Obviously never in a million years would I say that and and am gentle with my opinions around her. Although have mentioned that people can't change sex it's biologically impossible. I also don't call her "Roger" but a nickname I made up for her.

I had to stop training for a little while, as listening to all the other women call her Roger and giving her the attention she was desperately craving, was making me so uneasy. I can't be part of the abuse of our young gay and lesbian children.

Going to have to change user name again now, aren't I? 🙄

Ah @ColdEvenings that’s so hard especially when under the guise of being kind, the other women are rushing to validate her

There are a lot of gay men who play as well and are involved in officiating.

At grassroots level, yes very much so. It is a joint decision between team captain and coach with consensus from other players.

We had a another thread about male players identifying as women to play women's hockey, and one of our regular trans activist posters said it was "social ostracism" of trans people if women from the opposing team refused to play.

I didn't realise he worked at England Hockey.

That's really awful @ColdEvenings

If it's any consolation (not much in the present I admit) I think eventually the rules will change to protect female players.

All the sports are having to admit the truth one by one so eventually the last holdouts will have to concede to reality, fairness and safety too. Let's just hope it doesn't come at a horrific cost to a young woman or girl.

Or is it that the players on the trans team have been told to shut up and put up?

In either case, women would be forfeiting their right to play the sport of their choice because a man had decided it is his ‘right’ to play on a women’s team.

I really sorry to hear that @ColdEvenings and it's similar to what I've experienced in women's football. Eventually I had to leave the sport and the issue tore our team apart.

I would be equally unhappy having a transwoman on my my team. Its not about winning at all costs - it's about preserving the integrity of the women's game. We had muslim women and women who really just needed a place away from men on our team.

Like hickey, women's football also has a high proportion of lesbian and gender non-conforming players and it's very easy for the trans issue to get conflated with that. There also seem to be a fair number of younger players who haven't quite grasped the extent of the physical differences between males and females and think they will still be competitive against males. They are in for a rude awakening if the numbers of trans players continues to rise.

I suspect several reasons women on the trans team put up with it.

• Fear
• #Bekind
• ignorance
• gaslighting

Seeing the way the women on my team validate the young lesbian "Roger" on my team makes me despair.

She's a young lesbian who is being sucked into a cult!! Stop validating her and giving her the attention she craves. Her mum is amazing, social workers are involved etc, because as per most of these young confused kids, body disorphia (?) isn't her only problem :(

Players seem capable of holding two contradictory stances at the same time - 'this is wrong' and 'we need to acquiesce to trans players' demands'.

Fear and social conformity drives the second. The fear is very real - and I don't think they're wrong. Many are professionals in the local community and standing up against it could be career suicide.

Yes truth I have a surgeon and a solicitor on my team as well as young school girls. No one is going to stand up and say anything.

They were all terrified last year when I said "That's a man", I even asked the ref, who I know well. She said there was nothing she could do about it even if it was a man.

But I'm not going to play against them this year. I don't care anymore. If they're in an opposing team, I'm not going to play and I will say why. I'm scared but I'm going to do it!

By who exactly? Who to field is decided ultimately by the team captain and coach, with the support of senior players. While some may privately oppose I’ll bet good money the majority are happy to go along with it, setting aside their personal beliefs in favour of the obvious advantage it is giving the team. No different to the doping that is rife in amateur sports (due to lower levels of testing) which players are happy to turn a blind eye to even if they wouldn’t dope personally.

The change has to come from the top because individual teams and clubs will not do anything that would result in giving up an advantage that they currently enjoy.