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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why couldn't they have focused on schools too?

6 replies

musicalfrog · 06/10/2023 14:08

I'm grateful for the discussion on hospital wards and not being forced to believe lies etc. I really am.

But I think the real harm is being done in schools. The more kids are exposed to it the more crap we're saving up for the future imo.

Could we get the propaganda off the corridor walls? Could we make sure it's being taught as a belief system and not a fact? Could we PLEASE ensure free speech is allowed?

OP posts:
MrsOvertonsWindow · 06/10/2023 14:41

Well said. It's dystopian that schools are giving free rein to transactivists to gaslight school children of all ages that they could be born in the wrong body and drugs and surgery are the perfect treatment. Let alone the queer theorists being allowed to wreak havoc with the sex ed curriculum.

Rudderneck · 06/10/2023 16:56

Yeah, I agree.

I think part of the difficulty is there is a somewhat bigger picture, it's been ok, at least in practice, for a while for schools to give values based information to kids on sexual issues. Not just gender, or sexuality, but the kinds of general stuff that actually lots of different families have different views and beliefs about. And in fact lots of schools have what comes down to a fair bit of political content. GI just gets seen as another example of the same thing, the school working to teach the "right" values to children.

Really what needs to happen is that schools need to become much more hesitant with this kind of content. Schools don't have any moral authority or expertise to decide what to tell kids about this stuff, especially in a pluralistic society.

SpicyMoth · 06/10/2023 17:40

Frankly, I think it'd make far more sense if they have to teach it, to teach it as a part of R.E. - Perhaps also including some rudimentary philosophy as well and actually getting kids debating in a neutral way rather than just being told what to believe.

I had a substitute/trainee R.E teacher when our main teacher was off having her baby, and he started a Philosophy Club after school which I adored - One topic I remember being super interesting was one on abortion, everyone disagreed with each other on some aspect of it and it was a genuinely productive debate that I think changed minds that day and helped us seen things from everyone's perspective with no judgement or anything at all. It was genuinely just a fun experience, and I think kids desperately need that these days in this time of "no debate".

PorcelinaV · 06/10/2023 18:12

Really what needs to happen is that schools need to become much more hesitant with this kind of content. Schools don't have any moral authority or expertise to decide what to tell kids about this stuff, especially in a pluralistic society.

I agree. If you're going to promote values then maybe like the basics of Western style democracy, and we have to follow certain rules, or chaos.

I think it's still the law that schools should be promoting Christianity, although they probably largely ignore that today. I don't have a problem with it, because parents have a choice in the matter, so it basically functions as an extension of the parents' own right to indoctrinate their child.

I think sex education should be taught off a national curriculum which is publicly available to view.

TheClogLady · 06/10/2023 18:23

Rudderneck · 06/10/2023 16:56

Yeah, I agree.

I think part of the difficulty is there is a somewhat bigger picture, it's been ok, at least in practice, for a while for schools to give values based information to kids on sexual issues. Not just gender, or sexuality, but the kinds of general stuff that actually lots of different families have different views and beliefs about. And in fact lots of schools have what comes down to a fair bit of political content. GI just gets seen as another example of the same thing, the school working to teach the "right" values to children.

Really what needs to happen is that schools need to become much more hesitant with this kind of content. Schools don't have any moral authority or expertise to decide what to tell kids about this stuff, especially in a pluralistic society.

exactly this.

Schools should make the legal position clear on matters of sexual orientation and gender reassignment but they should be careful not to drive a wedge between the child and their home life/their parents.

Teaching kids something in school (eg that being gay is always something to be celebrated) when it’s very different to what children are learning at church/mosque/temple/synagogue/at home/at grannies just causes more internal conflict for gay kids growing up in conservative/orthodox families, not less.

Whereas if the legal position is taught (ie same sex marriage is absolutely equivalent to opposite sex marriage in UK law and that some families have same sex parents who can both have parental responsibility, same a hetero couple can) it’s going to be easier for a child (especially a child with an emergent same sex attraction) to rationalise it and look to theIr future, rather than feel that awful conflict of ‘home says this/school says this, only one can be right so the other must be lying to me’.

My DD has just started at a girl’s high school that has majority Muslim students on roll - the school have The Proud Trust listed as their partner org for LGBT issues (of anal sex dice game fame!) so I’m really thinking about this topic at the moment.

I think I might message LGB Alliance for advice because all the Stonewall/
Mermaids/Gires/Allsorts type orgs are more or less the same - what I would imagine teens from orthodox backgrounds need to hear is a combo of ‘the law of a country is a higher authority than the rules of various religions and everyone’s right to religious belief/lack of belief is protected in that law’ and for the actual gay/bi kids, something like the ‘It Gets Better’ stuff which was the message of the 2000s?

Trans does not seem to be a thing at this school, as natal boys aren’t allowed to apply (although I suppose an extremely Mermaids-y parent might try and sneak a boy in via changing passport and NHS records) and the vast majority of the girls wear a hijab and the trouser option (for modesty reasons).

I know the girls have already discussed same sex attraction via talking about the Heart Stopper books. One girl said her mum has told her she can’t read them until she’s 25/has left home, whichever happens first!

The girls who are experiencing same sex attraction and/or gender distress (and gender distress can be related to wanting to be straight and not gay) will need some sort of positive messaging in school but full on glitter and rainbows and mermaids and unicorns is likely to create more internal conflict than resolve it.

(this is a specific example about a Muslim majority school, but the internal conflict of one message in school/a different message at home probably happens everywhere)

TheClogLady · 06/10/2023 18:26

Link for my ‘It Gets Better’ reference above (didn’t dare try and add it to the main post in case MN reloaded and deleted it all!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Gets_Better_Project

It Gets Better Project - Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Gets_Better_Project

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