Open swimming category cancelled

[AFieldGuideToTrees]

Quel surpris. Nobody entered the category. When will the scales fall and people realise it's about beating women and taking their places, not wanting to compete fairly.

Open swimming category cancelled

Quelle surprise indeed!

It should never have been proposed, as it was unfair to women, but at least now we have the proof of its pointlessness.

Shocker.
Jesus the boards today are depressing x-x

I'm glad. Exclusionary and dumb. Trans people aren't a different species or a third sex.

No, they're the sex they were born. What is exclusionary about saying if you don't want to compete as your birth sex, here's another category just for you?
It's the polar opposite of "exclusionary".

Apparently though, from the other thread this is due to trans people not feeling welcome and feeling rejected.

Exclusionary because a female category and an open category includes all human beings.

How can you feel rejected and unwelcome when there is literally a completely open category made just for you? Not forgetting the actual sexed category that you're meant to be in...

Oh.... I agree with you Bad.

Oh I know @Helleofabore I was being outraged near you not at you 😁😁

Which is the other thread?

How does a female category include all human beings, exactly? 🤯
There's a mens category, a women's category, and for those who're a little confused - a transgender category.
Nobody is being excluded here.

The people who compete in the women's category are doing so because they want to take women's places and show how women can always be beaten down.

They aren't interested in competing on a level playing field in an open category.

I'm glad these people are being rumbled and removed from their advantageous positions in the female sex category in some sports.

I believe gender is reductive, I also believe that anyone who identifies at any point on the gender spectrum should be able to live their lives in any way they wish so long as it doesn't harm any one else.

I hate the narrow gender labels people generally are forced into, ie males are masculine, females are feminine. Men do x jobs, women do y jobs. Men have these traits, women have those traits. I used to describe myself as non binary because I hated these social constructs of behaviour so much. However I now hate being forced to choose a category on an increasing number of instances where my sex is erased and I'm forced to choose a gender instead.

However, certain mysoginistic men, and certain homophobic people, are twisting this to the extent that female sexed people are being descriminated against in sport, lesbians are accused of being transphobic if they don't want a transwoman girlfriend, and women who want single sexed spaces are referred to as terfs because they want to be in a hospital bay with other female sexed people, and prefer intimate examinations to be carried out by female sexed people.

Trans people in sport, hurray, trans people openly nurses, great, trans people in relationships with people who find trans people sexually attractive, I'm all for it. Removing discrimination and prejudice from everyone experiencing it. Yes, yes, yes.

Accepting people with massive advantages into the female sports category, forcing women to stay in hospital bays with male sexed people, removing women's options to not be examined by male sexed people. Telling lesbians they're transphobic if they don't want a relationship with a biological male, or someone who is biologically male, but has had surgery. Male bodied people in women's prisons. Etc etc etc. No.

This doesn't even make sense...

I actually feel a bit sorry for the swimming organisers. They have tried to be fair to all, male, female and trans, and no-one has taken up on their offer. In theory, any one can enter the open race, but even non-trans competitors have declined the invitation.

@searchinglookingforlove what on earth is confusing about anything I've said? I've never agreed with the 'third category' idea in sport. I'm happy that sport authorities are gradually putting boundaries in so that female categories are for women and an open category is for men and anyone female who doesn't want to label themselves as a woman. Setting up categories especially for trans people is genuinely exclusionary because it suggests there is something so different about someone living this way that they're not male or female.

Am I allowed my opinion now?

But isn't it worth it to show the absolute truth, which is they're only interested in beating women, and that it's the only way for sub-par male athletes to win.

Setting up categories especially for trans people is genuinely exclusionary because it suggests there is something so different about someone living this way that they're not male or female
It suggests nothing of the sort. It suggests that sex matters, and they remain the sex they were born. They are still perfectly welcome in their biological sex category.

Here snowy

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4911697-well-whod-a-thunk-swimming?page=1

[Head in hands]

Yes I KNOW anyone can go in their sex category. That's my point. There isn't a need or a justification for a category that says 'TRANS PEOPLE OVER HERE AWAY FROM EVERYONE ELSE YOU WEIRDOS'. It's completely redundant. These are men and women, there aren't people outside those categories.

You read the word 'exclusionary' in my first post and assumed things that aren't there. God almighty.

Open categories aren't exclusionary, they literally include everybody and anybody, trans or otherwise. That no one wants to compete in this category speaks volumes, not about it being a place for 'weird trans people', but about the reasons those trans women who want to compete in the female category want to do so.

Still not making any particular sense to me, I'm afraid...
These are men and women, there aren't people outside those categories
Nobody is accusing these people of not being men or women! They are simply saying they need to compete as their biological sex, and not the opposite sex because they aren't.. If they refuse to do that, there's the open category 🤷🏻‍♀️
Why are you determined to paint this as trans people being told they are neither men nor women? It's a ridiculously stupid stance to take.

I see the Ooen category as being like the Freestyle category., ie, you can do any stroke in it. There are other categories, but in this race, the different strokes can compete against each other.

I think PermanentTemporary is arguing in favour of there being 2 options: Women's (which is ring fenced for actual women) and Open (for everyone else).

I agree and think some responses here have somewhat missed the point. Having three categories (Women, Men and Open) seems a bit pointless and unnecessary and is evidently unpopular in practice.
Having just Women and Open is surely the most sensible, fair and inclusive solution.

Trans females are going to be disadvantaged in an Open category against men though. They shouldn't compete with other women either if they're taking testosterone.

Thanks for the link, helleofabore