Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Irish University says it is unlawful not to use preferred pronouns

37 replies

Poshspicebag · 05/10/2023 08:23

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/education/2023/10/05/lecturer-objects-to-universitys-gender-identity-policy-which-describes-refusal-to-use-pronouns-as-unlawful/
There is a certain irony that the university states that this compelled speech is being done to make everyone feel comfortable.

While it is obvious from the article that money is a motivating factor, it is sickening that so many of the people pushing this are women who are willing to denounce other women who are unwilling to comply.

IANAL but I think their interpretation of the law is incorrect but I expect that the University will dig their heels in. I can't see the Minister for Higher Education or the Minister for Equality stepping in to rectify the issue.
Perhaps the only encouraging aspect is that the IT actually reported this.

Lecturer objects to university’s gender identity policy which describes refusal to use pronouns as ‘unlawful’

South East Technological University launches new gender expression and identity policy

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/education/2023/10/05/lecturer-objects-to-universitys-gender-identity-policy-which-describes-refusal-to-use-pronouns-as-unlawful

OP posts:
JellySaurus · 05/10/2023 16:31

individuals have the right to determine and affirm their gender

Fair enough. But why is that interpreted as individuals have the obligation to affirm others' genders?

Individuals have the right to determine and affirm their personal beliefs, insofar as their actions do not impact upon others.

JellySaurus · 05/10/2023 16:32

Random italics.

Poshspicebag · 05/10/2023 20:05

Raineverywhere · 05/10/2023 15:27

Personally, I'd take that as a no, it's not against the law.

https://twitter.com/ColetteColfer/status/1710004176451670204?t=ejbd74O4KhdCj_ljX2XDMA&s=19

https://twitter.com/ColetteColfer/status/1710004176451670204?s=19&t=ejbd74O4KhdCj_ljX2XDMA

OP posts:
Raineverywhere · 05/10/2023 21:01

Yeah, I have a feeling Leo wouldn't be so keen to bring in his hate speech legislation if this sort of thing was covered already...

Cailin66 · 06/10/2023 09:31

Pudmyboy · 05/10/2023 09:38

Is this irony?

Colette Colfer is stunning and brave. She has been so for a very long time. And if you read the full article you will see that she is likely to lose her employment for this. She already mentioned her job was on the line for her stance on this 6 months ago.

Pudmyboy · 06/10/2023 11:40

Cailin66 · 06/10/2023 09:31

Colette Colfer is stunning and brave. She has been so for a very long time. And if you read the full article you will see that she is likely to lose her employment for this. She already mentioned her job was on the line for her stance on this 6 months ago.

Yes I noted this after reading the article properly, and have apologised for my error to the poster

ArabellaScott · 06/10/2023 14:04

This is so chlling.

Duffdee · 06/10/2023 14:48

Not to worry. The U.K. will no doubt be in exactly the same position soon enough when feminists elect the Labour Party and they introduce similar laws here. For some reason smaller countries just seem to do things quicker while in larger countries things seem to take a little more time for some reason.

Villagetoraiseachild · 06/10/2023 20:14

No worries, Pudmyboy.
Trying to reclaim the words stunning and brave.
I think this woman is extraordinarily courageous and her arguments have some nuance in a debate that has become so polarised, reactive and entrenched.
I wonder if The Countess in Ireland have commented on this, their founder has a legal background.
Anyway, best of luck to her.

Genesis1v27 · 07/10/2023 21:37

Leo Varadkar was asked whether "preferred pronouns" are a matter for the law at the EU summit yesterday. This Irish Times report is not behind a paywall, so I'll post the article in full:

Taoiseach urges people to be ‘more relaxed’ about preferred pronouns

‘I can’t imagine us ever prosecuting anyone for using the wrong pronouns,’ says Varadkar after lecturer raises concerns about university policy

Everyone should try to use people’s preferred pronouns and try not to take offence if people make mistakes, Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has said.

Mr Varadkar was asked about whether the law should deal with correct pronouns after a lecturer said she would refuse to comply with a policy by the South East Technological University (Setu) because it described a refusal to use the preferred pronouns of staff or students as an example of unlawful discrimination or harassment.

“To be honest, I can’t imagine us ever prosecuting anyone for using the wrong pronouns,” said Mr Varadkar on Friday.

“I do think we all need to be a little bit more relaxed about these things though and maybe a little bit more mature about it,” he said.

“Everyone should use the right pronouns, the pronouns that somebody identifies with, but bear in mind from time to time, people are confused, they just don’t get it right. I think we need to not automatically take offense if somebody uses the wrong pronouns. Unless they set out deliberately offend, and I think that’s very rare.”

The Taoiseach was speaking at an EU summit in the Spanish city of Granada after being asked about Setu’s new gender identity and expression policy which was officially launched at an event on its Waterford campus on Wednesday.

The university said it was aimed at creating an inclusive atmosphere where all staff and students are free from discrimination or harassment.

Colette Colfer, a lecturer in world religions at Setu, said while she had no personal objection to using anyone’s preferred pronoun or name, her main issue of concern was the compulsory nature of the policy.

The document states that Setu is committed to non-discrimination, equality and the maintenance of safe and collegial working and learning spaces. It adds that the policy, which is intended to cover face-to-face interactions and online communications, was drawn up recognising the legal and regulatory framework within which the university operates.

It says the policy was drafted with regard to all applicable laws, such as the Employment Equality Acts, and states that examples of unlawful discrimination or harassment because of a person’s gender identity include, among others, “refusing to address a person by their correct gender pronoun or new preferred name”.

Ms Colfer said she was concerned over what appeared to be a misinterpretation of equality laws and said many other staff shared her views but were afraid to speak out.

“I support the broad aim of the policy, but not the methods. All students should be treated fairly and equally. But the methods of this policy could result in discrimination against those who do not subscribe to gender identity theory and who believe that biology is more relevant than gender identity in matters such as women’s sports and changing rooms,” she said.

To me, he is saying that deliberately not using someone's "preferred pronouns" or preferred name is (or will be) unlawful, and a person may be liable to Garda investigation and prosecution (!!) for not doing so. And obviously employers will be able to take disciplinary action against employees who breach a policy like the one SETU have introduced.

Saying "I can’t imagine us ever prosecuting anyone for using the wrong pronouns" shows he can pretend to have a very limited imagination when it suits him, but the threat is clear.

Genesis1v27 · 07/10/2023 21:48

Also, in case anyone wasn't aware, Colette Colfer has published a number of great pieces on gender ideology in Ireland on her Substack site.

Genesis1v27 · 07/10/2023 22:01

And, Colette Colfer was interviewed on Waterford Local Radio yesterday, the programme is Déise Today on this page, the segment starts at 10:24 (a direct link to the MP3).

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread