I would have asked for blockers and a mastectomy

[h1d1ng1npla1ns1ght]

My mum is a feminist, quite vocal, but has been pulled into gender ideology by her workplace. She talks about a lot of pre-pubescent children she knows through work as being trans, being “deadnamed”, but accepts that the science behind transitioning children is “inconvenient”, as in, it points us toward not transitioning children. I was talking to her recently and told her I would have asked for blockers as a child because I had anorexia. When you have anorexia, breasts are just extra fat; flabby, useless, soft, disgusting. I would have loved it if there was medicine to stop them from growing at all, and to have had them removed when they did grow. I’m very gender-conforming. I’ve never been a tomboy or anything. I just hated my body, I hated that it was going to change and I felt powerless. Even without an eating disorder puberty is uncomfortable and scary. If instead of “all I want in the world is to be thin, I’m afraid I will hurt myself if I can’t be that”, I had existed now and said, “all I want in the world is to be a boy, I’m afraid I will hurt myself if I can’t be that” do you think people could have seen past it or would I have been taken seriously? I really did hate my female body, just not for the same reason.
I’m rambling, I’m sorry. I have two young daughters and I’m so scared for them. I’m scared of the capitalist, consumerist, male-centred feminism that is so pervasive in their world right now.

I would have transitioned if I could have done so. I was a 6ft tall ungainly short haired 12 year old who wanted to be a boy. I didn’t understand girl rules and sort of looked down on girls and their interests and lives.

Another point that gets overlooked is that having the power to socially transition at school against the wishes of authoritarian parents must be thrilling for many girls. It would have been for me- To have the establishment against my parents who I couldn’t stand up to myself- how wonderful that would have been!

So glad I grew up in the 80s and 90s and it wasn’t an option. I would never have been allowed to medically transition- my mum was a tomboy and I don’t ever believe I have seen her in a dress. She would have seen straight through the bullshit. I might have socially transitioned with school backing and that would have been harmful enough. When I was 14/15 everything clicked back into place and now I am a perfectly happy middle-aged mother of 3. Socially transitioning would have been a disaster- how would I have ever been able to backtrack?

They wouldn't give you a masectomy or puberty blockers if you had anorexia.

I’m not so sure. One of the findings of the interim Cass review was the major concern that once gender issues are raised, it creates a tunnel vision where any comorbid mental health issues are just blasted aside.

Do you have any examples of when a child with anorexia has been given them?

Professor Michele Moore has talked and written at length about many examples where clinicians, as soon as the child decided they were trans, proclaimed that that was the reason why they child was anorexic.

One case she talked about involved a child who was in a unit for children with anorexia and several of them had come out as trans. The child had no indication of being trans identifying when they went in.

The clinicians appeared to believe it was the answer to everything.

sadly the quality of research and record keeping in this area is frequently below par, as noted by Hilary Cass.

I found this 2022 paper on comorbidities of EDs in the gender diverse though:

https://jeatdisord.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40337-022-00722-7

I can't copy/paste as on my phone, but the gist of it was there is a higher incidence of EDs in the gender diverse population.

'Transgender and other gender diverse individuals are at increased risk for development of eating disorders due to significant risk factors including stigma, discrimination, and body dissatisfaction 7,8,9,10]. This population may engage in eating disorder behaviors to mitigate or suppress secondary sex characteristics'

Here's Michele describing those cases.

Spiliadis saw many girls with chronic eating disorders at GIDS. “Most anorexics are natal females who reject their femininity and are repulsed by their secondary sex characteristics. They were being put on puberty blockers, which is awful as they’re already not developing because of their eating disorder. So you are double-blocking them.”

From one of the many reports into GIDS at the Tavistock.

I was born in the 80s. I was what most would have called a " tom boy". Back then you could just get on with it. Having to wear a skirt to school or put a nice dress on for grannies birthday was seen as just what you did . No one died. The world kept turning.

The difference now is that it seen as literal violence because apparently one must he able to display and bang on about their " identity" 24/7

Instead of teaching resilience and how to behave within certain settings. We teach kids that loving parents are the enemy. We teach them that the most self absorbed attention seeking narcissistic behaviour is acceptable. And we teach them that they really do need to pathologise perfectly normal feelings about their bodies and growing up.

There really is such a thing as killing with kindness.

I dread to think what would have happened to me had I been born now. I had no friends in primary. I was a mis fit who hung around with the other social rejects. I hated my fat arse and thighs. I hated my fat body with no boobs. I had the dodgy fringe the wonky feet the big nose. My face didn't fit. I hated wearing skirts and argued the toss about how unfair it was girls couldn't wear trousers. Id have been a perfect candidate for all of this. Luckily I got a slap if I mis behaved and the rest got the attention it deserved. Ie- none.

I would've transitioned too because of abuse and misogyny/sexism. I even spent a few years dressing as boy and trying to pass. I still remember the thrill when another boy that didn't know me would shake my hand , as boys did.

I was just looking for safety, acceptance and more freedom (like boys had). Everything I did or wanted to do was wrong because I was a girl, but it would've been ok if I was a boy.

I knew someone personally back around 2003-2007. It was a bone of contention because they withheld them till my friend gained some weight. We would have been 14-17 at time. Of course my friend thought being trans caused anorexia and that male hormones and a mastectomy would cure the eating disorder so they were being unfair.

They have persisted as transgender into adulthood and whilst we’ve lost touch I know they still struggle with mental illness and an eating disorder (although bulimia rather than anorexia now).

It sounds like there is a demonstrated correlation between eating disorders and gender dysphoria treatment. That only scares me more!
As a previous poster said, I’ve had thoughts as a child, teenager, and adult that it would be so good to opt out of being female due to abuse.

One thing I cant get my head around is how much time is spent teaching these kids how to be a victim. Entire jobs in schools etc set up around this.

I'm not saying that kids shouldn't be supported if going through stuff. But the problem with anything around the therapy stuff is that there is no money in the cure. Wheres the incentive to make them not need you? I'm not saying all thrse people are bad or scammers etc but just that its a situation where its wide open to create problems so that you can spend weeks/months / years treating and solving them and have them coming back the entire time.

Where were all these kids 30 years ago. We were told to get on with it then. To behave. Do as we were told. We had to keep most stuff for our own time. I was sent to the office to remove my nail polish. Not celebrated for some made up identity that allowed to to flout rules everyone else had to live by.

The worse thing you can do to people who's brains are still developing and who are still fighting out who they are and what they want to do, is to teach them.they are a victim and teach them never to question anything or anyone. We are creating self absorbed mindless drones with no critical thinking skills who think the answer to everything is therapy and pills and a gazillion labels.

Incidentally, bulimia is evidenced to be socially contagious, with rates of x5 more women with it than men.

Anecdotally, as I haven’t read at length, it seems as though things like eating disorders, some of the symptoms of autism, depression, suicidal thoughts, anxiety, etc… are being treated as if they are caused by the child being trans, or are exacerbated by the child being trans. Rather than the symptoms or the other mental health symptoms causing the child to feel like transitioning might be the only fix.

Yes.

Eating disorders are prevalent among autistic children too for a variety of reasons. So it's really complicated.

However, there it's recognised that it can be part of their sensory difficulties and or relating to extreme anxiety, PDA type control difficulties (which is also very driven by anxiety.)

For 'some reason' (which we know well) adopting a trans identity is not seen like this.

@Abergale That sounds like quite a complex case and sounds like they carefully considered the anorexia and the treatment plan and did not jump straight to providing any treatment. Actually sounds like they withheld it which was a sensible decision.

Hope your friend is OK.

The point is that I had anorexia in the 90’s.
But now I wouldn’t have had anorexia, I would have decided I am a boy so that I could have taken puberty blockers.
Puberty blockers would have saved me from the changes puberty forced my body to go through. Changes I really did not like, because it made me very aware of my limitations in the world and I hated that.
Aquiring anorexia was the solution to this body dysmorphia at that time. Now the solution would most likely be puberty blockers instead.

Professionals will have an awareness of things like this and will have quite a rigorous process for assessing whether someone genuinely has gender dysphoria before giving out medications.

I think it's much more common that people are made to wait years for these types of medications than are given them flippantly without thorough assessment. Honestly, I think it's unlikely that you would have got them, because in the assessment process it would have become clear that you did not actually have gender dysphoria. There's more to it than you going to a doctor and saying 'I want to be a boy'. That's what assessment is there for.

Your concern seems to be that you would have deliberately misused a prescription medication and doctors wouldn't have picked up on your lies. There are similar concerns for other prescription medications that should be for certain conditions only, and people doing themselves a lot of damage by taking them when they shouldn't. This is not unique to puberty blockers.

I was so badly bullied at school it scarred me for life. If I had been presented with a chance to become the coolest girl in school by identifying as trans, I'd have leapt at it, no matter the cost. If it stopped the bullying and gave me the ability to report the slightest hint of disagreement - and have the teachers do my bidding and bollock the bullies - I would have transed myself in a heartbeat.

Professionals will have an awareness of things like this and will have quite a rigorous process for assessing whether someone genuinely has gender dysphoria before giving out medications.

No, that's been the issue. They don't.

And there's a very big market in private clinics.

Professionals will have an awareness of things like this and will have quite a rigorous process for assessing whether someone genuinely has gender dysphoria before giving out medications.
Have you read Time to Think? It's really not like that! Bear in mind that in some countries it's even worse and professionals are not even allowed to question whether a child is "really trans" or whether something else may be causing their discomfort. It's truly dystopian.

Nope. As I mentioned they have swapped one eating disorder for the other. On top of a few more acronyms / illnesses.

turns out double masectomy and hormone treatment doesn’t cure trauma caused by childhood sexual abuse.

On the eve of my 10th birthday I cried myself to sleep, because I knew being in double figures would be the start of my androgynous athletic body turning into a woman’s, with hips and breasts that I swore I’d cut off when they started to grow. I cried because I wanted to be 9 forever, and because I wanted to be a boy. My best friend called herself “Bill” and I called myself “Jim”, and we rode our bikes topless around the hot streets of Beirut because that’s what the boys did. (Definitely social contagion involved there, my parents told me I was “easily led” and they were right.)

Throughout this period I KNEW I was a girl, I KNEW I could never be a boy, and when my dreaded breasts did grow in, I bloody loved them, hoiked up my shirt to admire them whenever I was in a locked toilet/bathroom with a mirror. I grew up into a heterosexual woman who liked football and pool/snooker, liked/flirted with men and was liked/flirted with by them. Only in my 50s did I start wearing dresses and skirts.

All this is normal, and fine, and allowed. Puberty is awful/difficult/challenging for most people, but it’s an essential part of growing up, both physically and mentally. It’s also, inconveniently for trans rights activists, the only known “cure” for gender dysphoria, so it seems counter-intuitive to try to block that “cure”.