Court finds there ARE physical differences between males and females

[Baldieheid]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66950240

I thought this was an interesting read.

MOD police being found to discriminate against women when they are, because of their biology, unable to get the same results in physical tests as men.

Well well well, who knew that there are innate biological and physiological differences between males and females.

Thx for the link BH.

It is interesting. The law obviously recognizes there are differences between men and women but it is a complex area of law, which is summed up by this line

The tribunal accepted the MoD's argument that level 7.6 on the bleep test was a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim but said the application of the test must also be proportionate

Overall it seems that most forces are getting it right but this one was getting it wrong.

The law is fine, the problem is that Stonewall and other organizations are launching a propaganda war against anyone using legitimate aim exemptions.

I came to post this, too.

In Scotland, too.
Maybe there is a teeny chink of light here after all...

I have found the current move to the same minimum fitness rate for men and women for defence to be really concerning. Because it is discrimination without a doubt.

It will allow more male people to be recruited than female people. And that is fine if it is a particular section, and the fitness demanded is very high due to specific activities (such as carrying the weight of a adult male in a firefighters hold and running x metres in y time.

However, if the role has no specific requirement, ie general duties the inbalance will allow in mediocre fit male people while demanding much higher fitness levels for entry from female people. That is where the discrimination comes in.

Well yeah, but what’s to stop a chap who can’t pass the men’s test slipping on a skirt and getting in anyway

the right thinkers are perfectly capable of reading this and understanding that the woman was discriminated against because of her sexed body and also thinking that men who like having a stereotypical feminine appearance should also take the women’s test

I don’t think we should underestimate the double think people are capable of

In a way I find this depressing because it shows that a tribunal can recognise that sex matters if it serves one social justice outcome (opposing sex discrimination) while other tribunals are ignoring the significance of sex if it serves a different social justice outcome (upholding gender identity ideology).

In other words, the system as a whole is operating to suit the senses of right or wrong in the people making up the tribunals rather than operating according to the law. That will be harder to resolve than the system being consistently wrong.

It said there was a measure of agreement between two expert witnesses that those differences included lower average muscle mass, women having a higher percentage of body fat and smaller hearts and lungs.

OMG, this is such cutting edge science!! I mean, I understand that there could only be ‘a measure of agreement’ between the experts because this is such a complicated area where it is virtually impossible to draw any conclusions without doing lots of high level testing, rather than say, just looking at a load of men and a load of women, or comparing widely available athletic performances results. 🙄

But seriously, it is a step in the right direction.

No shit sherlock

The experts could have listed more differences too. Such as higher portion of fast twitch muscle. What about stability due to q angles?

The list is long.

Shocked I am ...a difference between male and female, well who ever knew that !

Hard to believe we're celebrating biological fact being acknowledged and confirmed.

In other news, water is wet.

It’s bananas, isn’t it, that we’re excited about a Court recognising reality.

Hopefully that ruling can be used by people seeking to demonstrate that women & girls absolutely need a male-free sporting arena (pun shamelessly intended) in which to compete.

Women’s sporting excellence medals are being snatched up as male validation trophies & it doesn’t matter whether it’s the Olympics or a Rainbow District/Division egg & spoon race: competitions for women & girls should be just that.

Gosh this is astonishing, we didn't know this at all as women! Thank goodness someone has been to court to let us all know.

However, if the role has no specific requirement, ie general duties the inbalance will allow in mediocre fit male people while demanding much higher fitness levels for entry from female people. That is where the discrimination comes in.

There were legal cases about this in the 70s/80s. Different occupations had tests that had to be passed before employment.

Women often failed these because they were set to male standards.

It was proved that in many of the tests the level of strength (or whatever) was not needed for the work.

It was also pointed out that if the same tests, at the time, were applied to nurses hospitals would have been empty, but this was a female occupation so they didn't need gatekeepers.

Yes. I remember.

I was only talking about the military though. And obviously there is a requirement relating to deployment.

It is hard to reconcile the latest moves for minimum fitness requirements being the same with aims to accept more female defence personnel. Maybe that is my need for fairness kicking in though.

The value put on different aspects of the job are also deeply gendered. Yes, police officers sometimes end up in fights, and being a bloke built like a brick shithouse will be an advantage in that scenario. But much more of the job is about trying to de-escalate potential conflict: a skill that women tend to do more effectively than men (because of how they are socialised - am not suggesting this is an innate difference).

But, traditionally, entrance requirements stress the aspects of a job that men are better at, and overlook the ones that favour women. And this carries on right through the career: traditionally male skills are the ones that get you promotion. Women's skills are downplayed or overlooked completely.

Gosh, who would have thought it? There are actually physical differences between men and women!

Females being more successful in de-escalating can also be influenced by the socialisation of male antagonists too, in some ways.