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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Gender critical lesbian social worker claiming discrimination by local council employer.

27 replies

IwantToRetire · 29/09/2023 01:12

I cant find much more about this and couldn't find an existing thread on FWR.

But was alerted by this tweet about Lizzy Pitt https://twitter.com/AnnMSinnott/status/1707482880094425599

OP posts:
BonfireLady · 29/09/2023 06:22

I've just had a read and it doesn't say a lot unfortunately. On the face of it it does sound like it could be unfair.

What I'm not clear on at all is whether she still works there. It seems like she does.

I've never seen someone take a case against a current employer, so I'm a little confused. I'm assuming it can't be an employment tribunal because she'd either be going for unfair dismissal (they got rid of her owing to discrimination) or constructive dismissal (she left owing to discrimination). Instead this sounds like she is still there but is taking them to court. Does anyone know if this is normal? I would have thought it's more usual to raise a grievance within work and follow the internal processes (which may still end up with unfair or constructive dismissal if it can't be resolved).

I'm happy to be corrected if I've got the wrong end of any stick.

JoanOgden · 29/09/2023 06:41

Rachel Meade recently took her existing employer (Westminster Council, also a social work case) to tribunal; I think you can do it if you've exhausted the internal grievance process and are still unhappy.

There's a crowdfunder up for this one but no details so impossible to tell what happened or get a sense of how strong the case may be.

Magicmonster · 29/09/2023 07:14

It is not uncommon for existing employees to bring claims. Clearly they can’t bring a claim for unfair or constructive dismissal but they can bring a claim for discrimination amongst other things, eg discrimination on grounds of belief

Helleofabore · 29/09/2023 09:13

Didn’t Sonia Appleby take a the Tavistock to court while still working there as children’s safeguarding lead? She still is there isn’t she?

She did so to force changes as she found clinicians were not following processes and she was excluded from doing her job.

anyolddinosaur · 29/09/2023 10:40

To assist gardening - Gender critical lesbian discriminated against by local authority is better than searching a name.

Bosky · 29/09/2023 13:35

The opening to the plea for help is badly written so I hope Lizzy Pitt or someone who knows her spots this thread and it prompts a bit of editing.

"I’m a lesbian with gender critical beliefs. To my knowledge, this is the first legal case to be brought on the Equality Act Protected Characteristic ‘sexual orientation’."

There have been loads of cases brought and won under the EA2010 PC of Sexual Orientation.

Possibly, from what she goes on to say after that opening statement, she means that her case is that she has been discriminated against due to the fact that she is a lesbian (PC sexual orientation), ie. as defined by someone who holds gender critical beliefs (99.9% of the population), but her employer defines "lesbian" as a sexual orientation that includes males and this discrepancy has led to unlawful discrimination and breach of her employment rights under EA2010?

"I’m taking my employer, Cambridgeshire County Council (CCC), to court because I have been subjected to on-going harassment and discrimination over a protracted period, to the detriment of my rights as an employee, as a lesbian and as someone with gender critical beliefs. In doing so, CCC violated my dignity and created an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating and offensive workplace environment, which has negatively impacted my emotional and psychological well-being."

Trying to make sense of it but I might be wrong!

Fingers crossed one of the lawyers who frequent FWR might pop along and explain what it means.

IwantToRetire · 29/09/2023 18:22

The opening to the plea for help is badly written so I hope Lizzy Pitt or someone who knows her spots this thread and it prompts a bit of editing.

Before starting this thread I did spend some time searching by name, job title, and so on and didn't get very far.

Does anyone know Ann Sinnott whose tweet I linked to? I'm not on twitter but wonder if someone could ask her if she has more back ground.

Not casting down on the claim, but would be good to have a better understanding.

OP posts:
Bosky · 30/09/2023 02:42

Aha! Ann is on Mumsnet! Paging @AnnSinnott

BonfireLady · 30/09/2023 08:37

@JoanOgden @Magicmonster @Helleofabore
Thank you. That makes sense regarding current employment.
It's not something I'm conscious that I've come across before.

But yes (to other PPs), more details needed to make sense of this one. It's really not ideal that the opening words alongside the crowdfunding request don't inspire an immediate call to action. Lots of people who may well be sympathetic to what she's going through will give up rather than go on a googling quest.

Firebug007 · 30/09/2023 08:40

BonfireLady · 29/09/2023 06:22

I've just had a read and it doesn't say a lot unfortunately. On the face of it it does sound like it could be unfair.

What I'm not clear on at all is whether she still works there. It seems like she does.

I've never seen someone take a case against a current employer, so I'm a little confused. I'm assuming it can't be an employment tribunal because she'd either be going for unfair dismissal (they got rid of her owing to discrimination) or constructive dismissal (she left owing to discrimination). Instead this sounds like she is still there but is taking them to court. Does anyone know if this is normal? I would have thought it's more usual to raise a grievance within work and follow the internal processes (which may still end up with unfair or constructive dismissal if it can't be resolved).

I'm happy to be corrected if I've got the wrong end of any stick.

You don't use a tribunal just for dismissals, you can claim for discrimination, equal pay etc, whether or not you currently work there.

LoobiJee · 30/09/2023 08:44

Has it been updated since you looked at it?

It now says this:

When I sought to participate in meetings of a workplace LGBTQIA group and expressed my “gender critical” belief, I was subjected to a group complaint by colleagues followed by a disciplinary process resulting in formal “management action” designed to silence me. I was also excluded from the network.”

Needanewnamebeingwatched · 30/09/2023 08:48

This is what's on Crowdfunder...

I am a social worker, and a lesbian who believes that sex is real, and matters. Sex matters particularly to me as a woman who is exclusively sexually attracted to women. I do not believe that men can literally become women.

When I sought to participate in meetings of a workplace LGBTQIA group and expressed my “gender critical” belief, I was subjected to a group complaint by colleagues followed by a disciplinary process resulting in formal “management action” designed to silence me. I was also excluded from the network. The whole process was intensely stressful and humiliating for me. It left me feeling that my colleagues and my employer regarded me as a bigot who could only be tolerated in the workplace if I was forced to keep my beliefs to myself even when they were relevant.

I am aware of colleagues that share my view but are too afraid to speak out.

This kind of silencing and bullying is happening in local authorities, schools, colleges, universities, NHS trusts etc, up and down the country. A false consensus is imposed through a climate of fear. This has serious consequences for the way professionals like social workers, clinicians, teachers and others do their jobs - and serious consequences for the safeguarding of some of the most vulnerable in society.

It needs to stop. Will you help me to stop it?

I’m suing my employer, Cambridgeshire County Council (CCC), in the employment tribunal for harassment and discrimination. Employers won’t learn that this kind of behaviour is unacceptable unless they can see other employers being found liable by a tribunal and having to pay compensation. If you donate money to help me run this case, I understand that you’re doing so much more for the sake of that public example than to help me personally. I promise to give that fact full weight in any decision I make about settlement, and I promise I won’t settle on confidential terms unless I truly feel I have no alternative

JoanOgden · 30/09/2023 09:11

Yes, it has been updated - the detail about the network wasn't there before (unless I somehow missed it)

IwantToRetire · 30/09/2023 20:22

Good update - the power of FWR??!!

OP posts:
BonfireLady · 01/10/2023 07:54

Yes, that's definitely new info.
I saw it this morning off the back of Transgender Trend tweeting out about the case.
That's a huge improvement and now lays out what the issues are.
I hope she wins. I have a few gardening projects that I need to look at now, including this one.

MarjorieDanvers · 29/02/2024 08:50

I think Lizzy now has a preliminary hearing date?

Has Rachel Meade’s case had now impact!

MarjorieDanvers · 29/02/2024 08:51

Apologies *No not now!

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 29/02/2024 08:59

Her barrister is Naomi Cunningham. Cambridgeshire Council should be quaking in their boots!

You can be harrassed or discriminated against by a current employer, and you could go to court as a last resort if you've tried the internal grievance procedures and all else has failed.

crunchermuncher · 29/02/2024 09:41

I've dug for this crowdfunder.

The whole sorry tale is sadly the logical end point of TWAW. This woman seems to have been told by her employer that she has no right to her legally protected beliefs. Worse than that, she is not allowed to define her own sexuality, because the feelings of the male 'women' are more important than hers.

How can Cambridgeshire Council not see their own raging misogyny?

birchtreeglow · 23/04/2024 21:43

Noticed Lizzy Pitt Xitter post today so had a quick search for relevant thread here.

https://x.com/lizpitthot21228/status/1782729207979692098

Crowd funder has two days to go...

https://x.com/lizpitthot21228/status/1782729207979692098

NonLinguisticRhetoricIsMyKryptonite · 23/04/2024 22:45

birchtreeglow · 23/04/2024 21:43

Noticed Lizzy Pitt Xitter post today so had a quick search for relevant thread here.

https://x.com/lizpitthot21228/status/1782729207979692098

Crowd funder has two days to go...

This is interesting, when asked my pronouns at work I stated that I dont use them as I find them sexist and homophobic. I was reported and investigated and found to be 'transphobic' , I absolutely deny this, so I have a court case in July

Shall drill a row and sow seeds.

IwantToRetire · 03/06/2024 19:50

There's an update on the gardening site if anyone is interested!

News of a court case date and more.

OP posts:
JanesLittleGirl · 03/06/2024 21:42

She needs £9k in the next 21 days. I'm in.

borntobequiet · 03/06/2024 21:49

I will do some gardening.

borntobequiet · 04/06/2024 10:05

Bumping