Vivek Ramaswamy calls 'transgenderism' a 'mental health disorder'

[RoyalCorgi]

This is a particularly badly written article, even by Mail Online standards, but the story itself is interesting. Vivek Ramaswamy is hoping to gain the Republican presidential nomination - he doesn't realistically stand a chance, but he is now very high profile and getting a lot of publicity for his views.

The reason I think this is interesting is because he is being so outspoken - he's not pussyfooting around the issue. His comments about transgenderism being a mental health disorder are the sort of that Glinner might come out with, but as a whole in the UK, most of the well-known gender critical voices are much more circumspect. The debate is clearly far more polarised in the US. And I guess Ramaswamy must think he has nothing to lose by expressing his views so frankly.

[[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12569599/Vivek-Ramaswamy-calls-transgenderism-mental-health-disorder.html

It is a mere ten years since this was generally accepted view of the medical establishment.

'...1980 with the publication of DSM–III that the diagnosis “transsexualism” first appeared. In 1990, the World Health Organization followed suit and included this diagnosis in ICD-10. With the release of DSM–IV in 1994, “transsexualism” was replaced with “gender identity disorder in adults and adolescence” in an effort to reduce stigma. However, controversy continued with advocates and some psychiatrists pointing to ways in which this diagnostic category pathologized identity rather than a true disorder.With the publication of DSM–5 in 2013, “gender identity disorder” was eliminated and replaced with “gender dysphoria.”'

https://www.psychiatry.org/psychiatrists/diversity/education/transgender-and-gender-nonconforming-patients/gender-dysphoria-diagnosis

As time goes on scientific and psychological explanations seem to disappear for some ambiguous (quasi-religious) theory of "gender identity". Any scientific research into the subject is now blocked.

The work of Dr Ray Blanchard is still the best. But again activists don't want that work known about.

It is absolutely baffling that medical intervention can be considered the solution for a problem no one is willing to classify and measure.

It is absolutely baffling that medical intervention can be considered the solution for a problem no one is willing to classify and measure.

Not only that, but medical intervention is seen as an essential "treatment" for something which is not a medical condition. It's insane.

He's been doing the rounds of all the talk shows in the US. He doesn't hold back from saying what he means in general.

He seems to appeal to a lot of people, and has a rather interesting background, he's been hugely successful in business, he's an ethical vegetarian, religiously observant, very positive towards Christianity, used to perform as a rap artist, among other things. I've seen a lot of young youtobers really positively disposed towards him.

Before GI theory infiltrated and captured politics and society in general, the medical and scientific communities also defined it as a mental health disorder. The reasoning made scientific, medical and common sense.

For me, what's interesting is that this is being said aloud. A lot of the time people on the gender-critical side of the debate tend to qualify their remarks with "of course trans people are vulnerable", "of course we respect trans people's identities" etc. Very few are willing to be that blunt about the harm being done.

So I now wonder whether his openness will encourage other people to be more open - or whether it will further polarise debate, causing proponents of gender ideology to double down.

It’s either a mental health condition based around an easily externally observable false perception of somebody’s self - “that person believes them to be of the opposite sex which is objectively not true”.

Or

There is such a thing as a gendered soul and/or a gendered brain that is trapped/born in the wrong body.

It's interesting that the reasoning for changing it from a disorder to making GD the disorder was to 'avoid stigma'.

That's a political, not a medical decision.

If this stuff is being spoken about at a televised political debate (it doesn't matter whether left or right wing), the views are being expressed publicly and ends this "no debate" that activists are trying to push.

There has been too much control of television and print media by activists not allowing certain things to be spoken about.

Not only that: if you voice criticism of puberty blockers or chopping off bodily parts aka “bodily modifications”, you’re a bigot.

It isn’t about being left/right wing; it’s a mental and physical health safeguarding issue.

In America, I fear the latter but I hope people in prominent positions start being very blunt.

All very true, and actually you can't even criticise some of these methods if they lead to worse transition!

We know that puberty blockers prevent growth of the penis leading to not enough skin to create the neo-vagina, and the primitive methods used to create a neo-penis from fore arm skin are even worse!

It's very clear the health of the individuals involved doesn't matter.

Well he's right. I like Vivek a lot. He's very clued up and probably just what the US needs right now. He won't get the nomination though, not this time, which is a shame. Maybe next time.

Apparently now from the NHS not even gender dysphoria is:

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/

"Gender dysphoria is not a mental illness, but some people may develop mental health problems because of gender dysphoria."

How is that explained?

I can see the argument for why transgender identity isn't (automatically) a mental illness, because some people could be well functioning, regardless of whether you're into "delusion" territory.

Like we may think that a Mormon is living by basically delusional beliefs, but it's not a mental illness.

Isn’t dysphoria simply a description of being unhappy with a particular situation. I fail to see how gender dysphoria isn’t what we would usual define as a mental illness- the symptoms seem to be restricted to psychological symptoms only and it’s similar to other types of body dis morphia.

"Gender dysphoria is not a mental illness, but some people may develop mental health problems because of gender dysphoria."

A form of words that depends upon false equivalency or force-teaming.

Eg

Menopause is not a mental illness, but some people may develop mental health problems because of menopause.

Fair enough.

But

Bulimia is not a mental illness, but some people may develop mental health problems because of bulimia.

Is patently incorrect.

Particularly when you consider the astounding similarities between eating disorders and gender dysphoria in young people.

A degree of gender dysphoria is entirely normal during most of the major life-changes - puberty, pregnancy and menopause, for example.

Isn't it weird how GD in other aspects of life, when it is inappropriate, must be normatised and celebrated, whereas normal GD must be patholigised - while pretending that it is not being pathologised.

Of course it's a mental health disorder. Since humans can't change sex believing that you actually have is insane.

Completely agree!

It's not so much whether the beliefs are delusional as how society treats these delusional beliefs which is the issue here. It's whether they affect other people or if they only affect the believer.

We may think that someone else's religious beliefs are delusional, but we are not required to share those beliefs and as long as they aren't imposed on us as unwilling participants, this really doesn't matter to the rest of society. We can say "No thank you" and close the door if they call at our houses. We can roll our eyes and walk on by if they are preaching in the street. We can just ignore them.

In the past, even if a transvestite/transsexual believed he was a "real woman" this wouldn't have affected the rest of us. People might have rolled their eyes at this bloke who really believed that putting on a dress made him a woman, but he would have been of the "harmless" variety as long as he kept out of the women's toilets and changing rooms.

It's the requirement on the rest of society to participate in the delusion which causes the problem.

When the NHS says "Gender dysphoria is not a mental illness, but some people may develop mental health problems because of gender dysphoria" perhaps they should consider their own contribution to the mental health problems experienced by these people: encouraging someone to believe that their delusions are real is unlikely to improve their mental health.

Dysphoria sounds pleasingly sciency and important.

"I'm not happy" or "I feel uncomfortable" or "I have a sense of unease" doesn't hit the same spot as "I have dysphoria".

Which then becomes "my dysphoria" and "crippling dysphoria" and "dysphoric".

Can you spot the single condition which isn't apparently to be treated as a mental health condition in this article? https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-dysphoria-4588634

Not the main point but whatever happened to destigmatizing mental illness? Lots and lots of people have "mental health disorders" of various sorts. It's not an insult, it's a statement of fact. So why is it considered so beyond the pale in this topic?

Or
Sex-role stereotypes are so pervasive that when someone is told having a certain type of personality, or playing with a certain toy, makes you a specific sex, everyone just nods along and tells you that your body must be wrong, because of who you are as a person.

It can be. It can be a chemically-induced feeling. I know women that experienced a very specific, definite dysphoria brought on by letdown of breast milk - it's fascinating. Similar to depression, I believe.

Maybe it is more generally a psychological issue ( raher than 'mental health' as such); a way of framing and understanding the self and its effects and feelings. Beneath and beyond that there may be mental health conditions such as anxiety, depression, and so on.