Can you help me phrase something about gender very carefully for a work document

[AttillaThePlum]

I have been asked to comment on a colleague's thoughts about gender and EDI from my own (non legal) expert perspective.

Most of it I can do, because my advice is that as a company we should keep our heads down and stay out of it, not least because everything is going to go batshit around the election.

HOWEVER. I need to address this sentence. "we’ve included a simple sentence in our recent report: “while the language in this report speaks of young women and young men, these categories refer to gender identities and we recognise that gender is not binary.”].

I need to say that a) this is disputed and not everyone believes this and the right to say so is protected and b) I need to say this to someone who was once an equalities expert but has not worked as such for five years and so may not be across Maya Forstater etc but c) if I get one single thing wrong this person will jump on me like a lion that hasn't seen a gazelle in weeks and d) has recently shafted me massively over another project.

Which would be something like that this is an opinion, not a fact and it is an opinion which is protected - and then I run out of sensible words. Can you bring your collective expertise to bear and help me get it right?

Thank you.

I think either they just need to remove the sentence and reference to gender identity at all (and leave it vague as to what 'young women' and 'young men' refers to - most will assume sex) or actually provide definitions. Where did the data come from, how were people assigned to each category?

Saying anything incoherent about it - as that sentence is - will open them up to challenge. Surely easier to say nothing?

while the language in this report speaks of young women and young men, it should be noted that in this case these categories refer to biological sex (or sex at birth)

How about

we’ve included a simple sentence in our recent report: “while the language in this report speaks of young women and young men, these categories can refer to sex or gender identity. We recognise that for some gender identity is not binary.”].

(sorry can't turn off the highlighting]

And it's crap like this which is the problem, don't just let something as incoherent as this slide.

Please do challenge it. Removing the sentence entirely is the safe option.

If this is based on HR data, many workplaces use 'gender' as a synonym for 'sex' in internal data. People click on the gender which matches their sex because they don't have any other choice. That doesn't mean they have that 'gender identity' , it's offensive and potentially discriminatory to assume that.

Increasingly I'm clicking 'other' if that's an option. Yep, still birthed two kids and have a female body.

Surely it depends if that is how these categories are being used. As a PP said, if the women/men categories are reliant on self reporting, if the question asked to those people was related to genderfeelz rather than "what is your sex as recorded at birth?" then that statement would be incorrect. People need to know if the data the report is based on is sound or invalid.

This is also very good, and accurate I suspect.

Unless you include this you are assigning every single person included in this report a 'gender identity'. Unless that question has specifically been asked of them, it is not correct and discriminatory against anyone GC to say this.

‘… for some people,
matters of sex/gender are not so clearcut’. ??

Does the report need to speak about young women and men? Could it just refer to young people?

If not, in what context does it make a distinction between women and men?

Yes, I think what @turkeyboots has written is excellent and it is currently in.

This doesn't have to go off until end of play today, so happy to take anything else on board. And it's really appreciated - I wish you were all my colleagues and we could talk like this at work.

Also, does anyone have a link to a good plain english explanation of what the implications of the Forstater judgement are?

Thank you!

p.s Can't answer about the report as would be insanely outing...

Sorry, I've just seen your update.

It's a difficult one. I would ask whether the sentence might cause more problems than it solves.

You could say that there is a growing feeling among women in particular that not everyone has a gender identity and that those who believe they have a gender identity tend to be people who believe they identify as something other than their birth sex. Does your organisation really want to alienate the growing number of people who don't define themselves according to gender identities and for whom sex matters? Perhaps it would be better to leave the sentence out altogether.

If it really is necessary to make a reference to gender identities, the sentence could be rewritten to say something like, “While the language in this report speaks of young women and young men, we recognise that some people identify as non-binary. It is necessary in the report to refer to "women" and "men" rather than simply "people", due to X, Y and Z. However, we acknowledge that non-binary people exist and these phrases should be interpreted to include them.”

But what does the company and its report want the terms to refer to?

If I saw what turkeyboots has suggested I’d still roll my eyes.

I understand you probably won’t be able to OP but I would want to go hard line on this.

If the report was about the Earth would it say ‘but some people believe it is flat’

The Equality Act is clear that a woman is ‘a female of any age’

The new EHRC guidance for schools also states that sex is binary.

It’s hard to make a suggestion without knowing more about the report but I feel strongly that if data is being cut by sex/gender/gender identity then categories based on sex are the way to go.

I'd only keep that sentence in [in the revised format] if the report actually included girls who say they are boys in any way. If the report only dealt with girls, in every aspect, then the sentence is completely pointless.

Yes, that’s what I was getting at in terms of what the company needs the report to say based on the underlying data etc.

"It includes people who identify as non-binary" would be entirely unproblematic, even if you are gender critical.

Also, does anyone have a link to a good plain english explanation of what the implications of the Forstater judgement are?

https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/what-does-forstater-mean-for-employers/

There are loads of resources on Sex Matters website. As well as the above page, this is a good place to start:

https://sex-matters.org/where-sex-matters/the-workplace/

But do we even know if it does?

We're all just guessing at what the material reality is, becaus the inclusion of that sentence has thrown everything into doubt!

Everyone has a sex, but not everyone has a gender. How do we include everyone?

Does your colleague have scientific independent peer reviewed research showing that gender/sex is not binary?

We have 100 years of data on the impact of sex in sport, employment, medicine, patterns of offending etc - can your colleague provide any corresponding data on the basis of GI?

Who are they getting their advice from? Is it from the medical or scientific community or just other amateur lobby groups?

Has your colleague considered the impact of language changes and niche terms on the elderly, those with EASL, those with low literacy or learning difficulties etc?

Not sure why you are writing such a document it really isn't clear

Why cant you not simply say in an email to whoever you report to ( cc in everyone relevant )

" this is a legal minefield and not my area of expertise
There are legal and reputation consequences for getting this wording wrong I need help and support from higher up to deal with this "

How about “it includes… regardless of gender identity.”

'Woman' and 'man' are 'sex' words, not 'gender' words. They are sex descriptors used for humans, in the same way that 'bitch' and 'dog' are sex descriptors for canines.

I'd put for some - not for many

Some it is, and I've actually tweaked it further so it says "the authors of this report" rather than "We" which gets us out of a lot of potential holes.

@pimplebum How I would love to report to someone. I keep trying to make it happen.

Also Thank You again, it's been a really interesting conversation which has given me a lot of useful thoughts for other times.

I'd ask for clarification on what 'gender' and 'gender identity' is and whether they are using this when they mean 'sex'.