Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Help relearning words

24 replies

bonfireoftheverities · 22/09/2023 21:56

...I thought I knew the definitions of. Perhaps you can be of assistance.

Woman. Please don't tell me "adult human female", that's from the previous edition of reality.

Transphobia

Hate

Nuance
related to that, "It's complicated"

Literal violence

Thank you in advance

OP posts:
Toseland · 22/09/2023 22:24

Woman: adult female human
Transphobia: anything deemed transphobic [since 2016]
Literal violence: being kicked half to death by a gang of blokes calling you Queer

IcakethereforeIam · 22/09/2023 22:32

Hate - being told 'no' especially by a woman*

*old fashioned cunty kind

Transparent2 · 22/09/2023 23:06

Transphobia: anything that’s verifiably true. I’m only just joking.

Circumferences · 22/09/2023 23:37

I'll play 😂

Ok..

Woman-
Any person who feels like a woman . So simple, how could you not possibly see a problem with that.

Transphobia-
The intolerable state of mind that brings a person to recognise biological sex, or even worse, to believe the evidence of their own eyes and ears regarding a person in front of them.

Hate-
Someone having an opinion I disagree with is committing hate.

Nuance-
Not sure here, no idea myself, it's so nuanced.

Literal violence-
Someone having an opinion I disagree with is committing literal violence.

Piccalillipromises · 22/09/2023 23:57

Woman: anyone who says they are a anyone who says they are a anyone who says they are a anyone who says they are a anyone who says they are a anyone who says they are a anyone who says they are a anyone who says they are a anyone who says they are a anyone who says they are a anyone who says they are a anyone who says they are a anyone who says they are a anyone who says they are a anyone who says they are a anyone who says they are a anyone who says they are a anyone who says they are a... Error: brain stuck in infinite loop, send help, reboot needed...

whenindoubtgotothelibrary · 23/09/2023 00:00

Don't forget 'unsafe', which is a very special feeling which happens the instant it's suggested that 'no debate' isn't a sensible basis for policy making.

IcakethereforeIam · 23/09/2023 00:02

Gender affirming care - muti....mmmph...mmnh....

MargotBamborough · 23/09/2023 07:24

I think we are actually close to a definition of transphobia now.

Transphobia means not believing, or being willing to pretend you believe, that a person is a woman/man/non binary person, if they say that is what they are.

Transphobic comments are any comments demonstrating such non belief, for example:

  • trans women are not women
  • a woman is an adult human female
  • humans cannot change sex
  • keep prisons single sex
  • save women's sports
  • I stand with JK Rowling
  • repeal the Gender Recognition Act

It essentially all stems from not believing or being willing to pretend you believe that trans women are women, trans men are men and non binary identities are valid.

If you believed these things you wouldn't subscribe to the adult human female definition, you wouldn't labour the point about humans being unable to change sex because it wouldn't be relevant to them being a man/woman/NB, you wouldn't have a problem with TW in women's prisons and sports, you wouldn't agree with JK Rowling and you wouldn't think the GRA was bad law.

Transphobia no longer has anything to do with actual prejudice against trans people. (There is no longer a word for that.) It means lack of belief.

That has become very apparent in, e.g. the analysis done by Bristol City Council and the surveys on changing attitudes towards trans people, where comments such as the ones listed above have been given as examples of transphobia.

MargotBamborough · 23/09/2023 07:34

The new definition of woman:

"Most adult humans of the female biological sex, except the ones who believe they have a gender identity consistent with being of the male biological sex or consistent with being neither male nor female, plus some adult humans of the male biological sex who believe they have a gender identity consistent with being of the female biological sex."

This is what the word now means, but it is no longer clear to me what the point of this word now is. It is not a group of people I can imagine ever needing to talk about in any context.

There is no longer a word for "adult humans of the female biological sex", which is a group of people I often want and need to talk about. Not unless you count the term "AFAB" ("assigned female at birth"), which is unsatisfactory from my point of view because it refers to a completely imaginary event (babies being assigned a sex at birth) and it is not very useful for the purpose of communication because most people have never heard of this term and have no idea what it means. I also suspect that if it ever did become widely used its definition would then be changed to include people born with a penis.

MargotBamborough · 23/09/2023 07:45

"Hate" has a very specific meaning in the context of gender identity theory and its proponents, which is different to its regular meaning.

In the context of gender identity theory, "hate" means "the expression of any kind of disagreement with any aspect of gender identity theory". It is more or less synonymous with the definition of "transphobia" as explained above.

It is important to note that the word "hate" only applies to the actions and expressions of those who oppose gender identity theory, and not the actions and expressions of the proponents of gender identity theory.

So, "trans women are not women" = hate, but "punch a TERF" = not hate.

Trying to set up a female only space to discuss your rape trauma = hate, but setting up a school ping pong club which excludes students with gender critical beliefs = not hate.

Tweeting that trans women cannot be lesbians or mothers = hate (and potentially a criminal act), but threatening to send a pipe bomb to a children's author = not hate (and has no legal consequences).

Photographing a sticker with the words "keep men out of women's spaces" on it = hate (and also potentially criminal), but punching a 73 year old woman at a women's rights event and fracturing her skull = not hate.

Hopefully this is clear.

HipTightOnions · 23/09/2023 07:49

Excellent definitions Margot.

You have described current use perfectly. Are you by any chance a lexicographer?

MargotBamborough · 23/09/2023 07:50

"Literal violence" = "figurative violence". (Oral and written expressions of "transphobia" and "hate".)

Actual physical violence, if directed at TERFs = not violence.

MargotBamborough · 23/09/2023 07:51

HipTightOnions · 23/09/2023 07:49

Excellent definitions Margot.

You have described current use perfectly. Are you by any chance a lexicographer?

No but I am a lawyer so I spend quite a lot of time drafting definitions!

HipTightOnions · 23/09/2023 08:01

I thought you might be a lawyer. I would want you in my corner, that's for sure!

MargotBamborough · 23/09/2023 08:07

I would absolutely love to be working on some of these gender critical tribunal cases.

bonfireoftheverities · 23/09/2023 09:11

I am much obliged. (Checks definition of that.)

OP posts:
Transparent2 · 23/09/2023 10:00

MB's definitions filed away in case they prove useful at some time.

I have also noticed that certain women, such as those with the initials JKR, are responsible for the actions of others. So in making reasonable comments on Twitter, they become responsible for all the replies (except those of TRAs) and for "initiating a pile on".

bonfireoftheverities · 23/09/2023 10:52

'Cult', please.

OP posts:
MargotBamborough · 23/09/2023 11:19

I've been swimming and reflecting on the new purpose of the word "women".

The usual purpose of words is to describe something that exists. For anything that exists in nature or comes into existence organically, the thing exists before there is a word for it. The more fundamental the thing is to our understanding of the world, the older these words are in human language, e.g. woman, man, mother, father, eat, sleep. But new words can be invented to describe things which have been in existence for a long time, for example, a botanist discovering a previously unknown plant species and giving it a name, or someone in human history realising that there was no word for two legged animals and coming up with "bipod". Sometimes the word for the thing comes into being contemporaneously with the thing itself, such as when you invent a new drug and come up with a name for it. Occasionally the thing cannot exist until it has a new and unique name, for example, a Twitter profile.

What is extraordinary about this new version of the word "women" is that the word for the thing existed before the thing itself, and indeed the thing can only exist because the word already existed.

Category words describe groups of things or people with at least one common feature not shared by things or people outside the category. The only common feature shared by all the people in my updated definition of "women" is that they are using the same word to describe themselves.

You could create a category of people consisting of adult human females except those with a male or non binary gender identity plus adult human males with a female gender identity if you wanted to and call it "aeronautical noodle monsters" but they would not have anything in common and nobody else would use this term. If the only thing they have in common is using the same word to describe themselves, the only way to make them use the same word to describe themselves is for male people with a female gender identity to take the word that almost all female people have been using to describe themselves for over a thousand years and start using it to describe themselves. It is by male people appropriating the word women that the new category (essentially, "people who refer to themselves as women") comes into existence. And once it is in existence, you then begin arguing that it is this group ("people who refer to themselves as women") who need their own toilets, prisons and sporting categories, and not "adult human females". This is now easy because toilets, prisons and sporting categories are already labelled as being for "women" and "men", and even if the adult human females wanted to change this to restore the status quo ante, they no longer have a word for themselves so what would we call it?

That's why I have grudgingly come to the conclusion that I do not agree that people should be allowed to identify as whatever they like. Because you cannot identify as a woman without appropriating womanhood and and co-opting women into your identity without their consent.

MargotBamborough · 23/09/2023 11:33

MargotBamborough · 23/09/2023 11:19

I've been swimming and reflecting on the new purpose of the word "women".

The usual purpose of words is to describe something that exists. For anything that exists in nature or comes into existence organically, the thing exists before there is a word for it. The more fundamental the thing is to our understanding of the world, the older these words are in human language, e.g. woman, man, mother, father, eat, sleep. But new words can be invented to describe things which have been in existence for a long time, for example, a botanist discovering a previously unknown plant species and giving it a name, or someone in human history realising that there was no word for two legged animals and coming up with "bipod". Sometimes the word for the thing comes into being contemporaneously with the thing itself, such as when you invent a new drug and come up with a name for it. Occasionally the thing cannot exist until it has a new and unique name, for example, a Twitter profile.

What is extraordinary about this new version of the word "women" is that the word for the thing existed before the thing itself, and indeed the thing can only exist because the word already existed.

Category words describe groups of things or people with at least one common feature not shared by things or people outside the category. The only common feature shared by all the people in my updated definition of "women" is that they are using the same word to describe themselves.

You could create a category of people consisting of adult human females except those with a male or non binary gender identity plus adult human males with a female gender identity if you wanted to and call it "aeronautical noodle monsters" but they would not have anything in common and nobody else would use this term. If the only thing they have in common is using the same word to describe themselves, the only way to make them use the same word to describe themselves is for male people with a female gender identity to take the word that almost all female people have been using to describe themselves for over a thousand years and start using it to describe themselves. It is by male people appropriating the word women that the new category (essentially, "people who refer to themselves as women") comes into existence. And once it is in existence, you then begin arguing that it is this group ("people who refer to themselves as women") who need their own toilets, prisons and sporting categories, and not "adult human females". This is now easy because toilets, prisons and sporting categories are already labelled as being for "women" and "men", and even if the adult human females wanted to change this to restore the status quo ante, they no longer have a word for themselves so what would we call it?

That's why I have grudgingly come to the conclusion that I do not agree that people should be allowed to identify as whatever they like. Because you cannot identify as a woman without appropriating womanhood and and co-opting women into your identity without their consent.

Edited

The new definition of the word "cult" is "a group of people who hold the stubborn and persistent belief that humans cannot change sex and that someone's sex assigned at birth is what makes them a man or woman, who have been indoctrinated by right wing religious conservatives in the USA and refuse to listen to sCiEnCe."

MargotBamborough · 23/09/2023 11:34

Sorry, I quoted the wrong post there! @bonfireoftheverities

ditalini · 23/09/2023 12:04

The current definition of transphobia and the definition of blasphemy are virtually the same.

MargotBamborough · 23/09/2023 12:07

ditalini · 23/09/2023 12:04

The current definition of transphobia and the definition of blasphemy are virtually the same.

Almost, except for the fact that we have a human right not to believe in God but we don't have a human right not to believe in gender identity. Trans people, however, have a human right for others to believe in their gender identity.

ditalini · 23/09/2023 12:16

MargotBamborough · 23/09/2023 12:07

Almost, except for the fact that we have a human right not to believe in God but we don't have a human right not to believe in gender identity. Trans people, however, have a human right for others to believe in their gender identity.

Yes, we have new "blasphemy" laws and the modern sceptics who railed against the old laws are wilfully blind to it.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread