Joint investigation by C4 Dispatches and The Times about allegations made by women who have worked with Russell Brand

[IwantToRetire]

NB - I know trigger warnings have a bad name, but in this instance should add that some may find descriptions in the report of sexual violence personnally disturbing.

Alice has decided to speak out because she now believes that she was too young to be able to consent to a relationship with an adult man, and that the law should be changed to protect those under 18. “My mum still feels like she failed me in some way in allowing this to happen, but she had no recourse at all,” she says. “It shouldn’t be legal for a 16-year-old to have a relationship with a man in their thirties. There should be something in place to protect children.”

She also wants the entertainment industry to change. For many years, Brand has been applauded for his jokes describing how he has manipulated women for sex.

“I think he was very skilful in the start of making his identity be, ‘I’m the womaniser. I’m a sex addict. I’m inappropriate but it’s all just a joke, it’s funny’,” Alice claims, “It’s a smokescreen for a lot more of his dark behaviour.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/russell-brand-rape-sexual-assault-abuse-allegations-investigation-v5hxdlmb6 (*)

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/russell-brand-in-plain-sight-dispatches

The tv channels and theatres still behave as those male entertainers are entitled to have every one of their whims catered to, including expecting womrn to be sexually available. For them, Me Too and all the other exposes have not stopped them acting like pimps.

(*) The Times article has been archived at https://archive.ph - just paste the Times web link into the box provided.

The newspapers can continue to report on allegations while the police are investigating. It's only once an arrest has been made that contempt of court laws come into play.

From the CPS site:

'Strict liability publication contempt only applies to legal proceedings that are "active" at the time of the publication. "Active" is defined in Schedule 1 Contempt of Court Act 1981 and proceedings are active if a summons has been issued or a defendant arrested without warrant.'

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/contempt-court-reporting-restrictions-and-restrictions-public-access-hearings

Didn't think anyone bothered with "chat" as it is the non feminist feminist thread.

@IwantToRetire no i didn't either and realised it's been neglected rather. Some of the discussion on that thread is extremely weak and non feminist.

That's the issue with splitting the bloody boards here.

But lots of mumsnetters didn't want to read the gender trans threads in the previous set up; they just wanted plain feminism and to hide these threads.

I'm torn on this - on the one hand I am wary of newspapers/media bringing someone down. I don't think it is necessarily fair to jump to the absolute conclusion that he is guilty before proper trial...

however we know we cannot in any way trust our legal system to take rape allegations seriously.

I suppose my conclusion is : we need a trustworthy legal system that victims of rape & SA can trust. It shouldn't be down to newspapers to be doing these kinds of investigations.

Thanks for that. I’m so worried long term press attention might undermine any criminal case. Hopefully there’s enough evidence from the Dispatches investigation for them to charge him and they’ll be able to investigate any new allegations at their leisure.

It's the 'hiding in plain sight' thing that's making my head explode. Or, as a pp said, not even hiding.

Those clips that have been played, of him talking to Jimmy Savile and sexuallly harrassing the female news reader. People heard that and laughed along, or gasped at his boundary-pushing audacity (So modern! Mustn't be a prudish Mary Whitehouse moaner and object...) and LET HIM CONTINUE. Applauded and enabled him. Turned a wilful blind eye to the sinister undertones. Didn't stop to think WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK? Or if they did, looked around and saw that other people thought it was funny and outrageous and radical, and said nothing.

And now there's a collective cry from the media and other celebrities of 'how did this happen? How was this shocking, aggressive, dangerous misogyny and humiliation of women allowed to go unchallenged?'

But it's still happening now. The penis-playing pianist. The Telegraph's column by a middle-aged mtf transitioner, lovingly describing the silky blouse and skirt he chose to wear for a funeral. Grace Lavery pontificating at great length (no pun intended) about 'her' penis. Willoughby on the (otherwise) all-women 'suffragette' edition of Celebrity Big Brother, parading around topless and aggressively asserting to the uncomfortable women that he was a 'real woman - LET THAT PENETRATE.' And more other examples than we could possibly list, but would all, when the balance tips in the collective consciousness, have people saying - HOW THE FUCK did we not see that for what it was?

I don't want to hijack or distract from the utterly sickening crimes committed here by this individual, and the trauma of the many women who were victims. But the post-revelation analysis, head-shaking and hand-wringing is doing my head in.

There's none so blind as those whose income and job security depend on them not seeing.

But it's still happening now. The penis-playing pianist. The Telegraph's column by a middle-aged mtf transitioner, lovingly describing the silky blouse and skirt he chose to wear for a funeral. Grace Lavery pontificating at great length (no pun intended) about 'her' penis. Willoughby on the (otherwise) all-women 'suffragette' edition of Celebrity Big Brother, parading around topless and aggressively asserting to the uncomfortable women that he was a 'real woman - LET THAT PENETRATE.' And more other examples than we could possibly list, but would all, when the balance tips in the collective consciousness, have people saying - HOW THE FUCK did we not see that for what it was?

I guess there are performers who expose themselves and behave badly as part of an act who are not that person IRL. One would hope that the more risqué the performance on stage the more professional the person is IRL with both audiences and colleagues. Seems that at that time RB didn't really have an act at all and was just himself 100% of the time onstage or offstage.

He did literally bring his whole self to work.

Woman's hour has been fucking amazing today

And horrific

'He did literally bring his whole self to work'.

Oh god, you're so right. Yet another reason to find that phrase sickening

Nailed it. The people complaining that red flags were overlooked are the ones overlooking today’s red flags😡

Thanks for that. I’m so worried long term press attention might undermine any criminal case. Hopefully there’s enough evidence from the Dispatches investigation for them to charge him and they’ll be able to investigate any new allegations at their leisure.

I hope so too. One interesting element is that probably the best-evidenced allegation was made by a woman in the US, because she went to a rape crisis centre who kept her records. Police in the UK won't be ale to do anything about that, but maybe the US police will investigate now? Then again, a statute of limitations applies in some US states, so they might not.

It's well worth listening to the actual interview (wow first day back from maternity leave!) and then world at 1.

Yes absolutely nailed it @WinterTrees.

World at one had Zelda Perkins pointing out that the bbc had got rid of any NDAs and had a new transparency policy whereas C4 still had them.

She described a woman at the moment dealing with a situation who was in hospital following a suicide attempt following historic abuse accusations and an NDA and if she died the NDA passed to her family.

Agree with everything you sayIwanttoretire and Woman’s Hour this morning covered it well. World at one also, and included the NDA now being called confidentiality agreements. The other shocking insight was the film of audiences including women, laughing their heads off at the horrific misogyny of his vile jokes. I would really like some of these people to explain how they found it funny. And we see all too clearly how we live in the world we do, with enablers and cheerleaders making the unacceptable fashionable .

Soy warrior crossposted re W at one.

I have only just found out as RB isn't someone I have taken an interest in that he is now married and a third child is on the way.

In a sense it isn't my business but I feel like she has been tricked, or fallen for that reformed bad boy story.

And even if some man has truely reformed, I feel that because of pastdisrespect and worse to other women they shouldn't be allowed to then pretend they are an ordinary member of society.

Or like those second families, where some man wan>s on about how he never realised how wonderful it was to be part of raising children, in the meantime having no contact with the children of an earlier marriage who were not only ignored at the time but are now being further dismissed by having their father sentimentally drooling over the new children.

Its all part of that two face hyporcracy that allows, in fact permits, men to behave towards women as though they are just objects and acquisitions.

And each time the news leads on this story revelling in being the first to report some new consequence, all I think it is your two faced dishonesty and cover up that allowed him to continue in plain sight to be an apologetic vile male predator.

From the Telegraph live update:

"Footage has emerged of the moment Russell Brand made a joke about a raping someone during a live comedy podcast.

Video, which has been deleted from YouTube in the past 24 hours was taken from a 2013 interview between Brand and Richard Herring at the Leicester Square Theatre.

During the Richard Herring’s Leicester Square Theatre Podcast, Brand joked: “I’ve raped someone once”, he later added he “killed her after”. The audience and Mr Herring responded by laughing."

What an awesome comedian.

He is/was part of that group of male comedians (maybe more extreme) who presented themselves as being alternative and left wing. But primarily it was just another way of objectifying women and getting paid to do it. And because they were so progessive (not) they felt able to be more extreme and crude.

I just cant understand why he was allowed on air. Shame on the tv programmes who thought they were being cutting edge in letting him on the air waves.

But also such a horrible example of how porn warps men's view of women, and unfortunately means some women accept that them being pornified and abuser is "normal".

This is so dark.
I saw Herring at that theatre - probably around that time - and I remember he went off on one about TERFs. I disliked him then. Dislike him even more now.

This is so dark.
I saw Herring at that theatre - probably around that time - and I remember he went off on one about TERFs. I disliked him then. Dislike him even more now.

I don't think he's a true believer, he just thinks women should move over. That probably goes for a lot of these men. They're not batshit, just sexist and misogynistic.

Yes Herring raises money for women’s aid every year but shouts at and calls out women who dare to call for women only spaces. I wonder why.

Found a a few gems on Julie bindels feed earlier

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/oct/30/russell-brand-jonathan-ross

Peter Tatchell, one of the (many) examples of current red flags being ignored. The future Guardian will write an article asking “how were we to know?”

I am not saying this is a great article, but it is interesting that the Independent chose to publish it.

But when you look at the comments, it seems most people think this is a media stitch up and / or the fact that because he is no longer "left" they can attack him. Which seems to imply people accept that the media is covering up for men on the left. Not a good look.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/russell-brand-allegations-women-rape-sexual-assault-b2413454.html

(Have removed the article preview as it is too unpleasant to see his image on FWR)