Is language changing back?

[bluelavender]

I was interested to read this article in the Guardian today.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/14/millions-of-women-in-uk-face-severe-period-pain-but-symptoms-dismissed-survey-finds

Short summary: it's about women and girls experiencing pain and other debilitating symptoms, but not seeking help, or getting effective help.

I read it twice and could only see women being talked about, not people who menstruate, or people with periods.

I think this is helpful and wonder if it is an indication of language starting to be clearer?

I wonder if the Guardian has changed its style guide? I found it interesting to think about in relation to the reaction to JK Rowling's comments about women and menstruation online some years back

Fingers crossed!

I do hope so.

The fact that so many people, including people in the public eye are questioning and disagreeing with the TWAW / #BeKind narrative has got to be a good. Also pride month seemed a lot more muted this year.

This morning I completed a survey being done by The London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine and the Department of Health and Social Care about women's reproductive health, and I thought the language used was a good balance. It stated that the survey was for "Women and those who were described as female at birth who are now trans or non-binary, are aged 16-55, and who live in England".

The survey is at the bottom of this page if anyone else would like to take it: https://www.lshtm.ac.uk/newsevents/expert-opinion/its-high-time-we-end-taboo-and-make-womens-health-priority

I like the fact that they didn't just go for 'anyone assigned female at birth' which I have seen previously, but instead included the actual word 'women'. Seems like a step in the right direction maybe?

(Edited as my link didn't work)

Let’s hope the tide is starting to slowly turn back to reality 🙏

Wow, you're right - a whole article about women and girls suffering a female bodily function without referring to men! It felt like 2010 again! 😉

I'm with the pp above as well- "Women and those who were described as female at birth who are now trans or non-binary" is long but possibly the most respectful to both groups that I have seen.

Encouraging, baby steps in the right direction...

@butteredchips8364 I also saw that survey and was equally pleased!

I think, in time, our language will mostly return to normal as the attempted changes they brought in were largely clumsy and unweildy and therefore the opposite of intuitive.

More subtle changes, like those the NHS latterly began introducing, where they stopped referencing women and addressed it directly at “you” might take hold more though, as they are less obvious and also less offensive.

I suspect, like many other verbal fads, especially in business circles, this will largely pass, not least because it is becoming less popular before it’s seriously embedded. If, as I suspect, most articles are still probably being written in “normal” then translated, then the effort will lapse.

As far as I've read, the Graun has taken the media release from Wellbeing of Women https://www.wellbeingofwomen.org.uk/news/launch-of-just-a-period-campaign/
and tweaked it slightly.

So probably not a change of editorial direction on the part of the rag.

Possibly worth looking at the Wellbeing of Women website and "About us' section, headlined "We are a charity that saves and changes the lives of women, girls and babies."

"Women", "girls". A refreshing change from charities like Jo's Cervical Cancer Trust that resolutely avoid the word "women" and use "people" and other terms instead.

Gosh! A guardian article about women that repeatedly said

WOMEN

GIRLS

IN THE GUARDIAN

With fuck all obfuscation or appeasement to men.

Meh. I reckon the "journalist" just couldn't be arsed to change the wording in the media release.

Won' t get pushback from the charity. And any complaints from the genderwoosters can be answered with "that's what they said, nothing to do with us".

I really don't think it means a real change at Graun Central.

I really don't think it means a real change at Graun Central.

@Chersfrozenface probably not but live in hope... die in Caergwrle

(Sorry, little joke for the welsh readers!)

I disagree - that formulation is neither logical nor respectful to those of us who don't identify as woman gender, but simply are women by virtue of their sex. "Woman" can be used either as a sex term (the way probably 95 % of the population use it) or as a gender identity. To try and mix both in the same sentence makes no sense.

The full version being "I live in hope, if I die in Caergwrle".

My late dad used to say it. I miss him and his sayings

We just had the short version growing up from the welsh contingency of the family. Took me years as a kid to understand the joke

I agree.

How about...
"Women, including those who were recorded/observed to be female at birth who now describe themselves as trans or non-binary"
Clarifies that the self-describing individuals are women (sex), but notes their self-perception (gender). I mean, personally, I would just say "women" but you could argue it's particularly important to get women who claim to be men to respond, because x-sex hormones, radical surgery etc have implications for their health and these effects are not well studied. So it needs to speak to them directly.

Make sense?

Well it would if you're not familiar with the geography, and it's not exactly a well-known area.

Perhaps a bit better known nowadays if people zoom out a bit from Wrexham on Google Maps.

I agree with you, GrumpyPanda*

I wouldn't count on it. As I was being admitted for my hysterectomy recently, the nurse who was doing my obs and filling in the paperwork for theatre asked if I'd been assigned female at birth. 🤦‍♀️

Ahh the joys of 1980s wrexham!!! Shudders

Can I ask where they young? I can't imagine an older nurse asking a patient having a hysterectomy that! Please tell me they were young, don't destroy my faith in humanity!

I lived there for 9 months in the early 80s.

One of my flatmates worked days in a factory office and long evenings at the Ferryman nightclub.

Probably fortunately I was studying most of the time.

Doesn't it depend what the wording of the form / checklist is?

She was in her 40s. She did apologise and say they had to ask the question. I'll be giving the hospital my feedback on them putting their staff in this postion.

That is so unfair on the staff. They know what sex a woman having a hysterectomy is, it's insulting and unfair to make them ask it.