When will there be enough evidence?

[ZeldaFighter]

Sporting authorities are always saying there isn't enough evidence of performance advantage by transwomen vs women. This is from an article today:
"The trans competitor, Eden Philpot, previously competed in men's events before transitioning to female. She has been competing against biological women since the 2022-2023 season.
In that time, Philpot has scooped up four gold medals, two silver and one for placing fifth and eighth in a matter of months.
The fencer told DailyMail.com that Philpot's success was 'highly unique' because she had scored medals in two disciplines - foil and saber - a feat that is unheard of in the sport.
'No other competitor appears on the podium of both events aside from Eden. I don't think I've seen it in my lifetime of fencing,' she said. [My emphasis]

How much more evidence is needed???

N+1 innit?

Sorry Zelda. But really it is crystal ball magic to answer that question. Right now there is already evidence - studies and anecdotal.

However they want it for each sport and for supposed elite athletes in each.

It should be the other way round. Prove that there is absolutely no advantage before letting men into women's sport.

You don't really need evidence, you just need a rule: "Men are barred from competing in women's sports."

That's it. The only reason they don't do this is because they have decided to pretend that men can be women. If they stopped pretending, there wouldn't be a problem.

100%

Yep.

Prove there is no risk to women allowing males to ID into women's spaces, sports, and groups.

Ahh but once they finished 8th so it's totally fair. Anyway they probably just tried a bit harder than silly women.

Or male bodies are different to female bodies in 100s of way most of which are not impacted by reducing T levels (or wearing lipstick and nail varnish) so men should stay out of women's sport.

Does anyone know how he did when he was competing against other blokes?

It looks increasingly as if this will build until something really awful happens and a woman is very seriously injured or killed. In sport, in a toilet, in a women's meeting, in a prison, in a refuge. And the incident manages to escape into the press, because these kind of stories are suppressed hard. It will take the government suddenly facing a lot of publicity and public fury, at which point we'll have the cringe inducing, wall kicking experience of seeing MPs and Westminster swear they had no idea, no one ever told them, and bigger boys did this and ran away, it definitely wasn't them.

We see this in small doses at every scandal, the Bryson one for example. The twit of an Irish MP swearing that he gave speeches written by a junior that passed apparently through his mouth without ever moving through his brain or consciousness, and he absolutely is against what.... he argued for and enabled to happen to women on his watch.

It will be revolting. It is revolting. The body count that has been acceptable to this point is revolting. I have for years had that song at the back of my mind from Paint Your Wagon, the one that goes 'if you want to see sin of the wickedest kind, here it is', with (for the hard of thinking) the sin being to see women as so lesser human that they permitted this appalling state to come into being and wittered about how awful it is to have to say no to special male people regardless of the impact, exclusion and harm to all female people. Even the really stupid female people who haven't the ability to see past the end of their over privileged nose, because they are only ever seconds away from a very rude awakening and loss of privilege. It will only take a few seconds of a male person removing that innocence permanently and leaving them with the kind of damage White and Bryson have left in their wake while 'living their best life'. It is not something I'd wish on any woman, that their eyes be opened by experience.

Decent people would care.

Why do they need evidence? It's obvious people born as males have an advantage.

I once naively thought the people letting males into women's sport simply didn't realise the extent of the advantage they have. I mean, we all know males are stronger, but maybe they thought it was just a teeny bit - like the difference between a tall man and a slightly shorter man. I laid out all the scientific evidence - utterly incontrovertible - and realised (after I was branded a bigot and kicked out of competition) that they SIMPLY DON'T CARE.

The happy feelings of one transwoman are more important that the safety and fairness of every single woman.

I'm sorry to sound incredibly cynical but we have had women physically attacked, skulls fractured, sexually assaulted in prison, and it has not made a difference. Children have been sterilised and it has not made a difference.

The lengths of self justification are extraordinary and I just don't know what will shift the dial for some people. Maybe nothing. I have seen TRAs say they are willing to 'die on rapist hill', so I suppose that answers my question.

Yes. When women are raped and beaten to the point of a fractured skull and your government just shrugs a bit, you do have to wonder what the actual fuck will get their attention and how little you ever realised they regarded you, as a woman, as so utterly worthless compared to men.

But an incident will inevitably happen that causes the negative publicity as pink leggings over a penis did. It's embarrassment that makes government move, sadly. Not morals. Not ethics. Not actual ability to care.

https://fencingtracker.com/p/100100273/Eden-Philpot

Within the past 7 days there has been at least one story on BBC front-page which relies on "one is too many" appeal. Today was about the xl breed dogs.

But mention the T and all the lost medals and actual physical harm are just "part of normal life".

There are situations where once is enough. For whatever reason, women's dignity just isn't one of those. Nothing will ever be enough.

Surely in fencing, it’s very obvious indeed. Males have longer reach than women. Arm length and height are definitively not significantly affected by taking hormones, or even having your man bits cut off.

It’s really a continuing blow though, to find out just how little women matter to so many people.

The evidence they need is that the penalty for letting Transwomen take over the women’s category is greater than that for refusing entry.

It’s difficult because there are rape, death threats and narcissistic rage on the one hand. (Laura Jessop certainly demonstrated they should be taken seriously) Against publicly being thought a quilling and a fool on the other.

not a great choice,

Ross Tucker (of science of sport) made the very persuasive point that in order for Oscar Pistorius to be allowed to compete on blades, it was up to him to prove that there was no advantage rather than athletics. When it comes to womens sports though the onus has been put that its allowed until the sport proves that it shouldn't be and even then its seen as bigotry.

If it couldn't have been proven that Pistorius' blades didn't give him an advantage, no one would have decried that as bigotry, it would have just been a fact of life.

Here’s Dave and his feelings and his erection. Dave matters, women don’t.

budge up, girls

Stonewall's new ad campaign, I hear.

The signs being waved at the women's cycling meet by the MRAs said it all.

'women: let TW win'.

No, fuck off, we're people too. #notyourbloodymum

#ifIwasyouwouldntbloodytreatwomenlikethiseither

I both don't know, and yet I already know.
Same as every other last one of them, somewhere in the many hundreds in the world men's rankings. Top of the women's by an indecent ( literally ) margin.

Wierdly women who transition to the men's events never instantly become "best in the world evah, stunning and brave". I wonder why that is?