To wonder if men giving birth could actually end the motherhood penalty

[ReginaRegina]

Obv we're talking a fair few years from now.

My prediction is that, despite all the talk about male privilege, a lot of women wouldn't actually want to be the main breadwinner. However, it would certainly create more choice in terms of shared parenting.

The experts are tentatively saying 5-10 years. Some a few decades. Citations needed.

Those rat studies are the stuff of nightmares, not only in terms of what was attempted but cruelty to the rats; ugh.

Unit 731. https://allthatsinteresting.com/unit-731

In the rat study, they had to sew the male rat to a female rat as some sort of reverse conjoined twin operation. I'll try to locate the link.

Other medics have previously detailed their belief that womb transplants will be offered to trans patients — but that more research is needed first.

Dr Paige Porrett, who established the uterus transplant programme at the University of Alabama, told DailyMail.com such a procedure for trans women is 'medically possible'.

In a paper published earlier this year, a team of researchers from the prestigious Cleveland Clinic in Ohio said 'several teams' were working to make the procedure a 'clinical reality' for transgender women.

'The first uterus transplant in a transgender female in the twenty-first century is anticipated to take place within the next few years, if not sooner,' they said.

Professor Mats Brannstrom, the chief physician at the University of Gothenburg in Sweden, who helped deliver the first live birth from a transplanted uterus in 2014, said he regularly gets email inquiries from males.

'I get emails from people all over the world,' he told Euronews Next in February.

'But there is the risk that we will rush into this because we have patients who are very interested.

'I say to them we haven't done enough research, but I think it will be possible in the future. It may take five or 10 years, I would say.'

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12435963/amp/Trans-women-benefit-womb-transplant-breakthrough.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11692871/amp/How-womb-transplant-work-trans-women-born-men.html?ico=amp_articleInlineText

Experiment with rats. https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/study-that-impregnated-male-rats-stirs-controversy-68928

Transwomen will be able to get a life-changing womb transplant in the 'near future', leading fertility experts have claimed.

Only tiny modifications would be needed to make it a reality for men too, according to world-renowned voices in the transplantation field.

Wombs could come from deceased women and donors who have decided to have their own reproductive organs removed — which can happen when women decide to become men.

They could then receive a hormone regime that mimics those a woman's body produces naturally during pregnancy to support the development of the baby.

These regimes already exist for biological females with hormonal disorders.

Babies that have been implanted in womb transplants before have been born via C-section and it is presumed the same would be true for transwomen.

Does anyone know what effect immuno-suppresant drugs have on a developing foetus?

It's a fantasy. There are so many unknowns and risks that it could never be ethical.

Of course you could sew a uterus into a male abdomen. You might even be able to keep it alive with a blood supply and anti rejection drugs. I suppose you could even implant an embryo if you wanted to. But fuck all would happen except the death of the embryo and likely the death of the uterus. Risking the death of the male in question.

Of course not. Why would any sane person consider the needs of a child when fetishistic Male fantasies are at stake.

America seems to be in thrall to the Mengele approach to medicine.

But the experts mostly disagree.

They're saying it is 'medically possible' and will likely happen within the next few decades. In one of those articles they're also saying that they recognise that transwomen should have equal opportunities with natal women etc etc and that they're going to work to make it a reality.

Unless the gender bubble bursts I think it'll happen at some point.

Could it be similar to the effects experienced by the women treated for hormone disorders? The treatment is apparently similar.

If men were the ones who had to give birth, there just wouldn't be any more babies.

They're not experts, they're touting for business from those who are gullible, naive, desperate, deluded or any other similar mentality.

If it was possible to fully monitor and manage the varying hormone levels during pregnancies in women, then there would be significantly fewer miscarriages, early births, and still births. And that's in women whose bodies are capable of responding to any hormonal treatments that are given to them.

It's science fiction.

If it were possible in the land of male believe, having a baby is hard work. I doubt men would be seriously willing to put in that effort and the physical toll it takes both during and after pregnancy, especially after the first few shared how awful it was. They have it pretty cushy, why rock the boat?

They are saying it may be possible to transplant uteruses and wombs in 5 = 10 years, but that is far, far, far from saying 'those uteruses and wombs will be able to support pregnancy.'

There's a whole lot of plumbing to sort, it's not just a case of popping another organ into a pelvis (which is too narrow to allow a baby to grow in the first place...)

I don't know.

I honestly think that human experimentation should be strictly controlled. Three people would be involved in an experiment such as this. 1 the woman who donates the womb, 2 the male/transwoman and 3 the foetus. The rights of all three should be considered.

Frankly it's not something that I think should be done. It's so unethical.

I know it's trotted out a lot, but that Jurassic Park quote is so apt.

"Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should".

If it ever did happen, I can guarantee that maternity care and funding would vastly improve. No way would men put up with what we have now (no disrespect midwives, you're excellent) but more the maternity wards, aftercare, pain relief side.

I will say this though, its making me seriously think about limiting my organ donations post-death. I would actually love if a woman born without a womb could have mine (I mean, theoretically, it's prolly a bit shrivelled up now) but like fuck is some AGP getting it.

Never going to happen. But I can see you get off on the idea.

These so called medical professionals cannot even create a reasonable visual proximation of the desired genitals in trans patients, let alone a functional one. The idea they're close to males being able to gestate and/or give birth is laughable. And legally where are these experiments involving human babies supposed to take place, what country would sanction that. April 1st was a while back!

They're not experts, they're touting for business from those who are gullible, naive, desperate, deluded or any other similar mentality.

You don't think the person who successfully carried out the first female womb transplant is an expert?

No, they're not an expert in implanting uteruses into men. Obviously.

No, I don't think so. The main penalties around motherhood are intrinsic to it. Things like, the physical effects of pregnancy, the time it takes out of your life, the consequences of breastfeeding, etc.

I suppose if we outsourced all of this to machines or something, that might do it, but I would not consider that a desirable outcome.

Before anyone blows a gasket, I'm definitely GC leaning even if it doesn't keep me up at night or really feature much in my day to day thoughts. I'm just interested in the following situation.

So....it's 2150 and male transplants are now an established and routine operation with extremely good success rates. The industry is well regulated and there are no shortage of women happy to donate to these stunning and brave future mums who are now socially aligned with 'cis mums'.

Where do the ethics lie? Do we say that men shouldn't give birth because nature? If so, this poses other questions because if we take the stance that we should follow 'natural' hierarchies then women are arguably natural default caregivers and men natural breadwinners as with the vast majority of the animal kingdom. The mother has distinct chemical and biological bonds with the child so reversing this dynamic is also arguably against nature.

So once men can give birth, what is the primary argument as to why they or any human shouldn't?

I'm guessing there's probably a novel, out there somewhere where all children are created in test tubes.