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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

CIPD new trans/nb inclusion guide

20 replies

WandaWomblesaurus · 05/09/2023 12:29

www.cipd.org/en/about/news/cipd-new-guide-transgender-non-binary-inclusion

Still using the terms "assigned at birth", "cis" etc etc

Some recognition of GC but look how it's framed.

OP posts:
Clymene · 05/09/2023 12:38

Stonewall, Gires, global butterflies, Robin, whittle et al

HermioneWeasley · 05/09/2023 12:49

The link doesn’t work for me and goggle is t bringing up anything new?

HermioneWeasley · 05/09/2023 12:56

@Clymene nope. Don’t know if it’s just me

Clymene · 05/09/2023 13:08

How weird! Maybe just go to the CIPD website?

HermioneWeasley · 05/09/2023 13:28

Found it. It’s not as awful as I’d feared but I’m not sure their toilets guidance is lawful - says that people who object should be moved and no ref to building regs which require single sex toilets to be provided

WandaWomblesaurus · 05/09/2023 21:42

twitter.com/JamesEsses/status/1699132153387245588?t=T2m8_fR0-cNzE3ZOMoTaFQ&s=08

James Esses on it now

OP posts:
WandaWomblesaurus · 07/09/2023 09:02

The problem with this all is that HR up and down the land are going to be using it as a guide.

OP posts:
Monopause · 07/09/2023 10:56

So everyone should use the ‘facilities they feel comfortable with’? So if I feel ‘uncomfortable’ using the toilet in my workplace because they have stated it’s all about where you feel comfortable, therefore opening up the female facilities to non-binary males and transwomen, and I therefore don’t feel ‘comfortable’ about that, are they not depriving ME of facilities that I feel comfortable with? Is that not breaking some sort of law? I want a women-only toilet. Fuck comfort, just provide your female employees with a female-only space.

Provide a neutral 3rd space for trans employees and those ‘allies’ who don’t mind chatting to Kirsty (formerly Karl) from IT at the sink. I know this isn’t what many trans women ‘want’ as they seek the validation of being ‘accepted’ as women in the ‘Ladies’ (hate that term!) Facilities are there for specific purposes - they’re not ‘validation rooms’.

And, no, I don’t wish to announce to all and sundry that I’m a woman via my email signature. I love the fact I have a unisex name and when people meet me they can use the pronouns that they ‘perceive’ are correct. I won’t be offended if they get it ‘wrong’ - I’ll just correct them and we’ll move on like adults.

Justme56 · 07/09/2023 11:31

What’s this all about? Don’t use any pronouns? Remember which ones to use depending on the situation? It all sounds way too complicated and a right pain in the bum. Do they really think when writing this stuff that employers are going to be encouraged to employ trans people.

CIPD new trans/nb inclusion guide
Skyellaskerry · 08/09/2023 14:12

WandaWomblesaurus · 07/09/2023 09:02

The problem with this all is that HR up and down the land are going to be using it as a guide.

That’s bound to happen.

I haven’t read the guides in detail, but I didn’t notice anything that said that using the cis term can be highly offensive.

literalviolence · 08/09/2023 20:43

I'm comfortable sharing facilities with other agender biological women. Is CIPD saying there should be specific toilets just for those of us who meet that criteria? With separate toilets for 'women identifying people' regardless of sex? And then another set for male identifying people, another set or agender biological men, plus disabled toilets an a non-binary toilet? That's 6 categories already.

literalviolence · 08/09/2023 20:45

It's an appalling pile of crap. It suggests that only people who believe that people can change sex believe that transgender people exist and matter. What offensive drivel.

Immoralplant · 08/09/2023 21:50

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TooOldForThisNonsense · 08/09/2023 22:19

It’s absolutely crap, to be expected from the CIPD however

ArabeIIaScott · 09/09/2023 15:18

'This guide was written by Dr Luke Fletcher (University of Bath) and Dr Rosa Marvell (University of Portsmouth), who drew on their expertise as well as engagement with focus groups, expert panels and case studies. We would like to thank all the experts and stakeholders – in particular the TUC, Acas and Lewis Silkin LLP – who generously shared their time and knowledge and worked collaboratively with us during the creation of this guidance, in addition to: Rev Dr Linda Ballard (Chaplain, Focus: the Identity Trust), Alexandra Beauregard (Professor of Organizational Psychology), Birkbeck, University of London, Mitchell Coe, UNISON, Georgina Crockford, Recruitment Marketing Specialist for Enterprise Rent-A-Car, Nick Drydakis, Professor in Economics at Anglia Ruskin University, Gendered Intelligence, GIRES, Global Butterflies, Tim Jarman, Diversity and Inclusion Leader, Ellie Lowther, FRSA, Kevin Lyons, Senior HR Manager, Pearson, Ciarán McFadden, Senior Lecturer in Organisational Behaviour and Human Resource Management, Dr Stephanie McKendry (Head of Access, Equality and Inclusion) University of Strathclyde, Dr Catherine McNamara, Head of GSA, University of Surrey, John O’Doherty, Director, The Rainbow Project, Nic Onions-Kenyon (they/them), Co Trans and Non-Binary lead for HSBC UK Pride, Mustafa Bilgehan Ozturk (Academic expert), Queen Mary University of London, Professor Carrie Paechter, School of Social Sciences, Nottingham Trent University, Peter Reeve, CEO of the Charity HR Network, Phillippa Scrafton, Senior Programme Officer, Stonewall, Pinsent Masons, TransActual, Robin Moira White, Barrister, Old Square Chambers, London and Bristol, Stephen Whittle, Professor Emeritus of Equalities Law, The Manchester Law School, Wickes, Sophie Wood (BA Hons Dip Ed), DEI Consultant, Transgender Employment Advisory Service (TEAS).'

ArabeIIaScott · 09/09/2023 15:20

WandaWomblesaurus · 07/09/2023 09:02

The problem with this all is that HR up and down the land are going to be using it as a guide.

Well, we are going to see a lot more court cases then.

And every single one so far has been found in favour of women who've been discriminated against for their beliefs.

SpamPie · 09/09/2023 15:32

ArabeIIaScott that's like a Who's Who in who believes the Equality Act is Stonewall would like it to be, not as it actually is.

And obviously as per, zero consultation with any of the groups representing the women who are affected by such "guidance."

WandaWomblesaurus · 10/09/2023 13:32

twitter.com/legalfeminist/status/1699344807083032992?t=_Aw9gZM7S8w9SJWOArYx4Q&s=08

Legal Feminist have looked at it.

OP posts:
ArabeIIaScott · 10/09/2023 15:13

'This is a take that is likely to be expensive for employers.'

The bottom line.

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