National Trust AGM

[PRAMtran]

I’ve received an email from the National Trust inviting me and all other members to vote in their AGM. Does anyone know if there are any things a woman’s rights advocate should vote for or against. Eg TWAW by stealth.

So many good points made on this thread from the lack of information on the house contents to the ‘projects’ to restore gardens that are neglected and the disappointing food. Post pandemic we went to Anglesey Abbey. I did actually write to ask why the herbaceous borders were so neglected and overrun with bindweed. The last time I visited they had looked stunning, and some other parts of the garden were well maintained. The reason they gave was that they had furloughed their gardeners to save money. This surprised me because I had always understood that the properties the NT agreed to take at least in the early years were supposed to be largely self financing due to land rents or other endowments.
The food was another major disappointment. After so many months stuck at home I was looking forward to some lovely lunch. I had a choice of a Cornish pasty or a Cheese and Onion pasty both served on their own on a paper plate. The homogenisation of the cafes has been a bad decision I think. I dream of the days when you got waitress service in the former housekeepers room with flowers from the garden in the table. The Pear and Almond tart from Llanhydrock is legendary in our house. I’ve been a member since I left University many years ago so I can see the changes.

I’m shocked at the level of ignorance and fear demonstrated on this thread.

The fact of the matter is at least 90 NT properties are significantly connected to slavery and colonialism. This was the source of the wealth that allowed them to be built and maintained. For instance, if you are unaware look up homes built by the “nabobs” returning from India. Sure, some visitors’ primary motivation is simply to have an ice cream rather than actually learn something. That is their prerogative. But it would be ridiculous not to tell the story of a property’s construction. It is exceptional wealth that made these homes possible and it would be ridiculous to not tell the story of where it came from.

One way of thinking of what the purpose of history is, is to tell us the story of how we got to who we are today. And as who we are changes then this story should evolve. As Britain becomes more diverse then it is right that we should place more emphasis on the story of where this diversity came from. And this, of course, includes the stories of British involvement in colonialism and slavery. If you still don’t agree consider this: when NT properties first opened the stories of servants were under-represented. Now it’s normal to tell them as we understand the connectedness of these properties across class. Telling stories of their international connections is just the next step in a more accurate history, which is also more inclusive.

As for LGBT+ stories, reading the posts here one gets the impression commenters think homosexuality was invented in the ‘60s. There is a rich history of same-sex sexual behaviour going back centuries. Again, telling it is just surfacing a fuller perspective on the past, not fashionable “shoehorning”. Yes, using todays identity terms might be in danger of being anachronistic, but this can be overcome.

I suspect those objecting feel threatened by more diverse historical storytelling feel threatened as they feel the history that they identify with - that, in part, constitutes their sense of self - is being eroded. This is a well documented phenomenon. But it has always been so. History is not discovered it is produced. And new generations write their own histories that need their needs better.

“The reason they gave was that they had furloughed their gardeners to save money.”

That was the excuse they used at the property I mentioned, too. I could understand furloughing the cafe staff as, if the cafe is closed there’s no work dealing with customers to be done, but that’s not the case with garden. If the garden is closed that’s an ideal time to get on with lots of work undisturbed by visitors. Instead of just leaving the beds to be overrun by weeds, they could have used the opportunity of garden closure to take the opposite approach and put weed control fabric down instead.

Also when it reopened they blamed Covid regulations for the inconvenient-for-customers way they were running the cafe, when it was nothing to do with the Covid rules, it was a penny pinching decision on their part. Which is fine, that’s up to them to have whatever system suits them - but they should have been honest about that, not claimed they had no choice in the matter.

If you see a painting in a gallery, can you enjoy that work of art even if you don’t know who painted it?
What if you knew who painted it but didn’t know who commissioned it? Could you still appreciate it then?
Does your experience of the painting as a work of art increase if you know how the original owner made their money? Do you appreciate it more if you know their sexuality?
Or does that work of art stand on its own merits as something to be valued and enjoyed?

Linking to this as I think it's relevant. Guidance launched today. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4890373-truly-awful-tra-guidance-from-the-university-of-leicester-for-the-heritage-sector

In response to GoddessofThunders articulate post, it's just a shame for the NT that they depend so heavily on old, probably uneducated (in goddess' terms) volunteers, and that most of the visitors just want a good time, without being lectured.
I know I've said it before, but it's just like the Anglican church, populated by people who are the despair of the people who run the organisation.
Both organisations are well aware of how carefully they have to tread, which must be very frustrating for them.

this: when NT properties first opened the stories of servants were under-represented.
To be honest, if it helps, I never go into the servant section of nt properties. As they're all the same. Once you've seen one pantry/kitchen/housekeepers room you've seen them all.

This will vary from person to person and artwork to artwork.

Some people will just enjoy a nice picture. Others will what to know who or where the subject is. Others will want to know more about the artist.

I find the idea that the inclusion of more information as "lecturing" or "forcing down our throats" bizarre. If you don't want to read the in-depth interpretation panels then don't. Just have a scan, enjoy the room / building / furniture / painting, and move on.

It's wilful ignorance too.

They literally do not want to know the history of their own country.

What I’m objecting too isn’t the availability of more information for those who are interested (although personally I’m uninterested in the sexuality of people who died long ago)it’s the fact that there is no information panel/guide book in the NT properties any longer which will tell me even the basics of title and artist about an art work. So any other info should be as well as not instead of the ‘basics’.

I love the kitchens! I very much see myself as a below stairs kind of woman

@DatumTarum
They literally do not want to know the history of their own country.
You mind want to wind in your assumptions. And perhaps consider your attitude.

Not wanting to have a currently fashionable view of history rammed down one's throat does not = 'do not want to know the history of their own country'.

FYI, I have spent many, many hours of my life in sundry archives in three different countries researching the history 'of my own country' (i.e this one), to which my father was an immigrant.

Maybe, just maybe, consider that you cannot read minds.

Who is this ‘they’ who don’t want to know the history of their country? I may be mistaken but by history do you refer to Slavery and Colonialism solely or are there other eras that ‘they’ are ignorant of? The Dissolution of the Monasteries, the Enclosures movement, the Industrial Revolution would all have created fortunes for some landed gentry based on the exploitation of others. What prominence should we give to the fact that Lord X made his fortune in coal mining and therefore is partly responsible for climate change?
Which pieces of our history are important enough to make it onto the information board or short guide book and which pieces get left out?

Oh it absolutely does. It's not about "fashionable" anything.

It's about new evidence and research leading to a better understanding of the past.

Why did you bother looking in those archives? What for? To find out what actually happened in the past?

That's what is happening now.

Of course, you can enjoy any object from the past or present simply by looking at it, without reading any accompanying text or knowing any context. And if you want to visit museums or NT properties and not read the text that is your prerogative.

Your point is unclear, but if you are suggesting there’s no need, benefit or requirement to explain any context for a NT property and its contents that’s ridiculous.

Sorry my point is unclear. There is only so much information that can fit in a guidebook or interpretive panel. If you had to choose the most important pieces of info what would they be? The painting was just an example. It could be the house, the decoration of a room, a piece of sculpture etc.

There are limited funds yes?

funds spent on rainbow washing are not being spent on upkeep

Cor

it must be so reassuring to know that you hold absolutely the correct view about everything

Not true! There are big differences in the levels of technology, how hierarchical the below stairs set up is, how much in general the owners were prepared to invest in their below stairs area, how effectively it’s separated from the rest of the house….
I think there is still a lot more that can be done in interpreting these areas effectively and indeed in researching them.

Theres nowt as queer as folk as they say….

I find the endless 18th century portraits and silverware rather tedious

@DatumTarum being willing to engage with new work is one thing. Having the current interpretation shoved at you is quite another.

And new research needs to be weighed and considered in the light of what we already know. I've come across some really glaring inaccuracies* in books and papers produced by reputable historians which will, one hopes, eventually be sifted out as the work is critiqued and other people research in the same area.

• As in, the books and articles say one thing and the cited sources do not agree. To the point, in some cases, of entirely destroying the arguments out forward.

The point of organisations like NT and EH is not solely upkeep. Not all money has to be spent on upkeep.

Well yes, that's how history work.

Interpretations are constantly being changed and re-evaluated. That's been happening since the ancients first came up with the concept of history.

To remain ignorant of what happened before your birth, is to remain forever a child. Cicero (I think)

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

Absolutely agree about the servants areas - it's also an area that archaeology can massively contribute to. I've done work on some of them.