It really is a ‘men’s rights’ movement isn’t it?

[ACatCalledPushka]

Peter Tatchell says “Gender identity is real
We all have a gender identity. Mine is male
Womens' gender identity is female
Trans women have a gender identity that is not the same as their biological sex
Their trans identity is different but equally as valid as the female identity of other women” (copied and pasted, so his typo).

So all women identify as female (no trans men there then). It seems he’s literally only concerned with trans identified males.

Shocker (not).

The thread title is a bit of a black and white view.

To an extent it is, with MRAs jumping on the bandwagon, but for Stonewall and other "charities" it's a good fund-raiser helping all the staff get nice salaries. The medical profession make a lot of money from the drugs and the surgery etc.

When this is over in a decade or two people will look back to see how it all began and will see that it is very different groups all coming together at the same time.

The truth of the matter is not that everyone has a gender identity, nor that some people do and some don't, but rather that there is no such thing as gender identity in the sense required, namely of something that isn't sex but nevertheless somehow can 'match' someone's sex or not, in the latter case causing transness.

The existence of gender identity in this sense is a non-scientific myth; no-one has yet come up with any way of detecting its presence or absence. And more: until we have an explanation of how something so different from sex could conceivably match with sex, we are entitled to deny the sense of its postulated existence.

In short, there could be no such thing as gender identity in the sense Tatchell and others try to mean it.

So, no, Peter Tatchell, not everyone has a gender identity. No-one does. And you are talking abject nonsense. (Probably, let's be clear about this - and much of your public pronouncements tend to back this up - this is because you are just, well, a bit thick.)

[Of course people can believe what they like, however daft. Guardian angels, paranormal auras, devils, gender identities, fairies, immortal souls, gods, goblins, ... fill your boots. Just don't expect your beliefs generally to be taken seriously. And, most importantly, don't expect such beliefs to have any influence on public policy; not everyone agrees with you, you see.]

Billy Bragg is showing himself to be a bandwagoning clout chaser who has literally no idea what he is advocating for.

I’m NonLesbianNana gender fluid as I’m not NonLesbianNana gender all the time. Only in situations where I find myself deferring to others or making polite small talk with older relatives with questionable views.

Of course I’m a middle aged woman so people often misgender me as a terf. They don’t respect my super special identity. Now where’s my fucking flag?

The concept of "gender identity" fits very nicely into health and medicine, "I have a gender identity that does not match my body" and the medical solution is "medication and surgeries" to correct this "medical" problem.

By claiming that everyone has a "gender identity" then means that we don't start to question the concept "oh, it's some scientific thing", and then accept others' solutions to the problem of "gender identity incongruence". It also plays into the idea of "born this way", and the brain being correct, whilst the body and DNA isn't.

The medical industry is very quick to label something so that they can give a solution to it.

Someone like Debbie Hayton said that they wanted a sex-change operation because it existed, they wouldn't have wanted it if it didn't exist. It's very materialistic.

People like to know the answer to what is wrong with them and the solution to it. Unfortunately (particularly with false information) many are being led down this path.

Yes. And he's denying the existence of a group of trans people - agender people. Vile.

Careful Peter…Is “women are women” any different philosophically from “men are men”? I thought this was rank transphobic bigotry of the type that needs to be escalated with employers and covered in the Manchester press..?
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/performer-shocked-alleged-transphobic-conversation-27614841.amp

see also ‘cervix havers’ (✅) and ‘penis owners’ (❌)

The reason trans women make up the main target of public discourse is because allowing biological females into men's spaces and men's sports isn't going to have the same effect on men as allowing biological males into women's spaces and women's sports.

I also agree with PP in that I don't have a gender identity.

I have a biological sex, which is female, and no gender identity. What do I have in common with someone whose biological sex is male and who has a gender identity that they describe as female? On what basis should we be using the same toilets and competing in the same sporting categories?

I think people have a right to identify however they like but I also have a right not to be included in their identity.

No, this is deliberate.

By using the words "male" and "female" to refer to gender identities, you deprive the only words we have to describe biological sex in humans of any clear meaning, making it impossible to properly discuss biological sex in humans.

Yep. What do I have in common with a transwoman?

Yes that's very possible .

I'll be honest - I don't care why someone thinks they're trans. I used to be religious, then I rejected my faith, then I re-embraced it and finally rejected it, all because of different life experiences. I didn't stop other people being Christians or force them to join me - in fact, my personal journey of faith has probably already bored you.
So, simples:

1. No hormonal, medical or surgical interventions on gender issues on anyone under 18, preferably under 25. No social transitioning without medical supervision. Counselling and talking therapy to be promptly available.
2. All current single-sex provision to be strengthened and remain so. Transgender people to be accommodated in specialist provision, based around birth sex.

🙄

Have any belief system you want, Pete. Don't forcibly convert others. You can have all the gender identities you want, good luck with that, you can believe everyone has a gender identity, you can feed the fairies at the bottom of the garden and kiss your guardian angel. It's a free country.

Other people are equally free to their own beliefs and views. Including of interesting views frequently expressed about children.

And yes. It is a men's rights movement.