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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Positive movement with my NHS Trust

22 replies

Brainworm · 29/08/2023 18:19

I've name changed for this post as it will be outing if colleagues read it.

I had a meeting today with my Trust's EDI manager. I have a senior role in the Trust and was asked to meet with her as she wanted to explore my lack of engagement in the wide range of initiatives she has invited me to engage in.

I don't think the meeting went to plan. I think she expected the conversation to lead to me feeling 'exposed' as someone whose views are not acceptable and who needs to 'do better'. I think it helped that this was a 1:1 meeting I told her that I wanted to take the opportunity of meeting with her to explore how she might be able to help with some EDI concerns of my own.

I explained that since qualifying I use the title 'Dr' so I do not have to disclose my sex and how I also shorten my name so it is sex-neutral. I shared how doing these things has changed my working experience in terms of how people who do not see or hear me respond to me, mostly because those who are sexist imagine I'm male. I shared that I do not want to use pronouns in my email signature as I do not want to unduly expose myself to sexism when I can avoid it. I also said that I want to be able to talk about and expose sexism in the organisation but am a loss at how to do this when the trust don't seem to think it is important (I shared that my thinking of this comes from them not having sex listed as a protected characteristic). I then went on to share how I suspect a male colleague who holds a role similar to mine and is less experienced gets paid more than me. I also shared an experience of sexual harassment that was swept under the rug (he was given a decent reference as they said he resigned before the formal investigation began, which meant his reference wasn't impacted).

At the beginning of the meeting she did suggest I use 'they/ them' pronouns as a solution to my desire not to signpost my sex and I ignored this at the time. When discussing the sexual harassment claim, I looped back to this comment, telling her that I experienced her suggestion of using 'they/them' pronouns as not dissimilar to claims that the sexual harassment investigation hadn't been formally started - sweeping sexual discrimination issues under the carpet.

By the end of the meeting she was looking very uncomfortable. I think she was equally outraged / conflicted by my crime of centring sex not gender and with the sexual inequality that is clearly alive and present in the organisation.

Before leaving, I pointed out that she hadn't brought forward her item of exploring my lack of engagement in her initiatives but if/when EDI initiatives about sex-based issues are put in to place, she can count me in.

To be honest, I don't think anything will change as a result of this meeting. I have typed up some minutes and shared them with her, and have copied in my line manager. I noted that no actions were agreed but I hoped to see some arising in the future.

OP posts:
AmbleInAnnBoleyn · 29/08/2023 18:25

Well done, these are difficult conversations to hold.

Motnight · 29/08/2023 18:25

Fantastic!

Well done Op and thank you for raising your head above the parapet on this important issue 😃

PimpMyFridge · 29/08/2023 18:27

👑

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 29/08/2023 19:34

Excellent work!

Brainworm · 29/08/2023 19:46

I don't think it would have gone this way even a year ago. I think there are chinks to exploit in the sense of righteousness that the EDI people were previously 100% unwavering about. I think more and more people are adopting a curious stance and asking them to explain, and they can't in any coherent way, putting them on the back foot.

Hats off to those who put an end to 'no debate'

OP posts:
PronounsBaby · 29/08/2023 20:47

💪👑

Glamourreader · 29/08/2023 21:07

Thank you for standing up for yourself, you stood up for all women.

I think the NHS is the worst institution with all this just now. I'm so desperate for women to be respected.

desiringtoremainsane · 29/08/2023 21:14

I love this approach, well done OP! In contrast to the issues you raised about sexual harrasment and pay disparity, the they/them request seems so petty (and what exactly are they trying to solve by getting you to add it?).

I hope the EDI person reflects on the discussion and how much work they would have to get stuck into (and be indignant about) if they also added sex to the list of protected characteristics.

drspouse · 29/08/2023 21:28

Did she think you wouldn't experience discrimination by waving the "they/them" wand?

fetchacloth · 29/08/2023 21:37

This is very well articulated OP, well done. 😊

onlytherain · 29/08/2023 21:41

So instead of using no pronouns, you were supposed to state incorrect ones? Did she consider that everyone would then actually use those pronouns for you? And why is it okay to ask you, a woman, to go by incorrect pronouns, but extremely important to use correct pronouns for transmen, transwomen and non-binary people (misgendering!)? That is discrimination.

Crouton19 · 29/08/2023 21:44

Fantastic OP! I agree that seizing the opportunities to be in the driving seat in these conversations is a really good approach. Turn it back on them. If my company's EDI team (an overhead we can't really afford at the moment) did half as much on disability and social mobility we would have a far more balanced workforce.

Thelnebriati · 29/08/2023 21:47

People should bookmark this and use it as a template for similar situations.

FictionalCharacter · 29/08/2023 22:01

Very well done.
I work in a university. HE is similar to the NHS in the way that EDI resources have been diverted away from sex and disability discrimination. I wish some senior people in HE would say what you said.

Hotcuppatea · 29/08/2023 22:06

You obviously handled that brilliantly, but I am so furious on your behalf that you even had to have that conversation.

What the ever loving fuck has it to do with the EDI manager whether or not you 'engage' with her bullshit? And why does she think you should be answerable to her?

Aaggghhhh!!! 😡

Iusedtoliveinsanfrancisco · 29/08/2023 22:12

Thank you a great coherent piece thankyou

JackieQueen · 29/08/2023 22:12

👏well done. Thank you 💐

TedWilson · 29/08/2023 22:16

Huge well done.

Although it does make me wonder WTF these EDI professionals are swallowing to regurgitate this bullshit. As a woman how can she not see what she is doing?

RealityFan · 29/08/2023 22:20

Sorry, what am I missing? Just what was so positive?

Catsonskis · 29/08/2023 22:24

I am a senior member of NHS trust too and am fully anticipating being invited to a similar meeting and have copied and pasted @Brainworm post into my notes on my phone.

brava @Brainworm

Brainworm · 29/08/2023 22:56

Thanks for the words of encouragement.

The meeting was interesting as there was no way that it could have been construed as me being negative or difficult. I was talking about legitimate concerns linked to experiences that were evidence based.

I think she was trying to get the measure of me and wondering if any wrong-think underpinned my concerns but there wasn't really any wiggle room for her to bring in TRA stuff.

It's almost as if females have issues and concerns that need attending and that these can be discussed without needing to consider other protected groups. Who'd have thought it?!

OP posts:
DrBlackbird · 29/08/2023 22:56

PMK for useful and practical conversation.

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